Brokering With Penn Mutual

[shooter]

I'm really surprised by some of the post here on this thread. We all know that advice is only as good as the information it is based upon....hope I can help. By the way, there are several good conversations about Penn Mutual already on this board which can easily be found by using the search function.

Shooter, l would like to address your original question as best as I can from my understanding of what your looking for. For the purposes of full disclosure, my B/D and career contract (a very liberal one) is with a large "east-coast" mutual, not Penn Mutual.

Penn Mutual seem to have become known as the UL mutual company. To most of us in the industry this sounds about as real as a unicorn but it doesn't take too long a look at their product portfolio to see this. Without question Penn has the best Universal Life Insurance portfolio of any mutual company....and, in my opinion is only rivaled by maybe two public companies. Here's why I say this...

• Standard Broker compensation on Whole, Term, GUL, and IUL is 90%. Long story short, if anyone on this forum or anywhere for that matter is getting less than this you are officially getting shafted. Comp goes up to 100% (all products) if your doing a nice level of production as a broker. Penn Mutual officially pulled out of the BGA/IMO brokerage world in early 2009 to focus on brokers doing business solely with brokerage directors. These are simply General Agents of Penn Mutual that solely work with brokers. If an IMO is offering Penn they simply have a contract through a brokerage director, which you could do yourself and avoid the middle-man! I would be glad to refer you to the Regional IFN director that my team and I work with here in Ohio, who will treat you fairly and give you this compensation day one with absolutely no production requirements.
• The GUL product is the only GUL I have found that does an excellent job of cash accumulation. Current interest rate on this product is 5.25%. Target Premiums are very competitive as are their rates. I have a one-pager around here somewhere comparing this product to the rest of the industry I'll attach to this post.
• Like Scagnt83, I see the biggest differentiator of Penn's IUL being their 2% floor coupled with the 13% cap. The cap may not be the industries highest but having that 2% minimum makes all the difference in 20,30, and 40 year "average returns". The product also has a fixed account that the client can choose to put funds into (5.25%, same as the GUL).
• Participating whole life product, they have one and only one product....kind of different for a mutual company. Within this one product you can have it paid-up at age 65 or age 100...depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Waiver of premium rider is own-occ for life....very rare within the industry. Overall, I would say this product is competive but behind Guardian, Mass, and Northwestern Mutual.
• Term rates seem to consistently come back as the cheapest of any of the mutuals.

I'm very much an "industry geak", kind of like Rick over at TGP. I spend a lot of time reading VitalSigns reports, evaluating companies ratings changes, and studying their financials. At the end of the day I never want to have to apologize for any recommendation I make to a client, therefor as their advocate, I do the research necessary to ensure this. I have found Penn Mutual to be one of the best kept secrets in the industry....the secret part though seems to be changing very quickly as the company has reported north of 40% life insurance sales growth for 2009 and then again in 2010. In terms of Penn's Life Insurance book of business (inforce policies), they are roughly 1/8 as big as MassMutual, NYL, and Northwestern....they are about 1/2 to 1/3 the size of Guardian. Size is a consideration in the overall picture, however it isn't one of the most important factors in my mind.

Thanks CFP for some valuable and interesting info on Penn Mutual.
I have read several post via the search option on this sight about Penn.
It is nice to be able to really learn something in place of just getting off the cuff remarks, or opinions without substance.

My interest was in a quality company with a competitive PAR WL and GUL without a commitment and a nice commission.
Thanks again, and to the other posters as well.
Shooter

 

[scagnt83]

So I just went back and looked and no it doesn't.

I'm looking at page 2 where is states in regular font size the following:

Yeah I saw that; but look at the fine print underneath the comparison chart where it states the assumptions for the comparison showing PM having a higher RR.

"Assumptions: Male, Age 45, Preferred Non Tobacco; 250,000 Death Benefit; Premiums paid for 20 years, 5,000 loans for 20 years. Dividends are used to
purchase Paid-Up Additions until income is taken when the dividend option is switched to offset premiums. Comparison based on analysis of Penn Mutual
and competitor illustrations and assumed to be accurate as of January 2011."


But I was incorrect in saying that they had wash loans on their WL... I thought all of their products had it...

 

[Full Throttle]

I'm really surprised by some of the post here on this thread. We all know that advice is only as good as the information it is based upon....hope I can help. By the way, there are several good conversations about Penn Mutual already on this board which can easily be found by using the search function.

Shooter, l would like to address your original question as best as I can from my understanding of what your looking for. For the purposes of full disclosure, my B/D and career contract (a very liberal one) is with a large "east-coast" mutual, not Penn Mutual.

Penn Mutual seem to have become known as the UL mutual company. To most of us in the industry this sounds about as real as a unicorn but it doesn't take too long a look at their product portfolio to see this. Without question Penn has the best Universal Life Insurance portfolio of any mutual company....and, in my opinion is only rivaled by maybe two public companies. Here's why I say this...

• Standard Broker compensation on Whole, Term, GUL, and IUL is 90%. Long story short, if anyone on this forum or anywhere for that matter is getting less than this you are officially getting shafted. Comp goes up to 100% (all products) if your doing a nice level of production as a broker. Penn Mutual officially pulled out of the BGA/IMO brokerage world in early 2009 to focus on brokers doing business solely with brokerage directors. These are simply General Agents of Penn Mutual that solely work with brokers. If an IMO is offering Penn they simply have a contract through a brokerage director, which you could do yourself and avoid the middle-man! I would be glad to refer you to the Regional IFN director that my team and I work with here in Ohio, who will treat you fairly and give you this compensation day one with absolutely no production requirements.
• The GUL product is the only GUL I have found that does an excellent job of cash accumulation. Current interest rate on this product is 5.25%. Target Premiums are very competitive as are their rates. I have a one-pager around here somewhere comparing this product to the rest of the industry I'll attach to this post.
• Like Scagnt83, I see the biggest differentiator of Penn's IUL being their 2% floor coupled with the 13% cap. The cap may not be the industries highest but having that 2% minimum makes all the difference in 20,30, and 40 year "average returns". The product also has a fixed account that the client can choose to put funds into (5.25%, same as the GUL).
• Participating whole life product, they have one and only one product....kind of different for a mutual company. Within this one product you can have it paid-up at age 65 or age 100...depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Waiver of premium rider is own-occ for life....very rare within the industry. Overall, I would say this product is competive but behind Guardian, Mass, and Northwestern Mutual.
• Term rates seem to consistently come back as the cheapest of any of the mutuals.

I'm very much an "industry geak", kind of like Rick over at TGP. I spend a lot of time reading VitalSigns reports, evaluating companies ratings changes, and studying their financials. At the end of the day I never want to have to apologize for any recommendation I make to a client, therefor as their advocate, I do the research necessary to ensure this. I have found Penn Mutual to be one of the best kept secrets in the industry....the secret part though seems to be changing very quickly as the company has reported north of 40% life insurance sales growth for 2009 and then again in 2010. In terms of Penn's Life Insurance book of business (inforce policies), they are roughly 1/8 as big as MassMutual, NYL, and Northwestern....they are about 1/2 to 1/3 the size of Guardian. Size is a consideration in the overall picture, however it isn't one of the most important factors in my mind.

Very informative post, thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[arnguy]

WTF is a "geak?" I've heard of a geek.

 

[lcgrodi]

Would be interested in contacting your regional IFN for contracting. How would I contact you directly? Txs for the informative post. Larry

 

[CFP83]

As an FYI to this conversation, there is absolutely no reason to go through an IMO or BGA to access Penn Mutual's product line-up....unless however they're willing to give you 95% payout or higher on all life products....don't hold your breath for this one.

Penn does business directly with agents through their IFN directors in your given region. The IFN directors "street comp" with FYC and expense allowance is 90%.

 

[BNTRS]

Penn also has the NDR UL loan rate stuff going on, correct?

I need to find my IFN, I think.

 

[WPM]

As an FYI to this conversation, there is absolutely no reason to go through an IMO or BGA to access Penn Mutual's product line-up....unless however they're willing to give you 95% payout or higher on all life products....don't hold your breath for this one.

Penn does business directly with agents through their IFN directors in your given region. The IFN directors "street comp" with FYC and expense allowance is 90%.

Does anyone know the renewal commission rates for PM's WL?

Thanks

 

[Stonewall]

12.5, 12.5, 7.5, 3 (through year 15), then 2

 

[WPM]

12.5, 12.5, 7.5, 3 (through year 15), then 2

Thanks! They seems to have a well-rounded product line with good comp. I need to give them a call.