Is It a Lie

[somarco]

to lead a prospect to believe they are buying from the parent carrier when in fact the policy sold is through a subsidiary?

Talked with a guy earlier that just bought a Medigap plan from Manhattan a few hours before visiting my site and running rates. That used to piss me off now I consider it an open door.

When I called and found out the sequence of events I asked, "Why did you continue to look once you signed up?".

They always give some variation of "just making sure I got the best rate".

I also have no qualms about asking what they bought. Most of the time they have no problem telling me. Occasionally they say it's none of my business and rarely, very rarely, they simply hang up.

In this case he bought a G plan from Manhattan.

So I said, "Manhattan stopped writing business in Georgia in November. If you just signed up today you bought from Western, not Manhattan".

"No, I bought from Manhattan. Been in the Medicare business over 100 years".

Medicare was created in 1965 so they can't have been in the Medicare business for over 100 years. Perhaps the guy said the company had been in business that long?

"Could be. But I bought from Manhattan, not this Western company you mentioned"

I figured that horse was dead for now so I moved on. Then he said, "As long as their renewal rates are around 4% I will just keep what I have".

Problem is, Western has only written Medigap business for a few months so we don't know about their renewals. Manhattan however has given renewals ranging from 7% to 9.5%.

He was unwavering so I asked "Do you mind if I summarize our conversation in an email? In the meanwhile you can think it over. Still have time to change your mind."

He agreed so I sent a follow up email stressing the misinformation about the carrier and a few other things. Now I wait and see if the fish takes the bait.

This isn't the first time I have run into misrepresenting the carrier. Telling folks they are buying from Mutual of Omaha when they are the parent, not the issuing carrier. But sometimes agents will say they are buying from Mutual of Omaha when all Omaha does is provide the reinsurance, or is the TPA.

Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Get the same with Aetna when they really bought from CLI, AHL or ACI or even Genworth.

I guess some agents think "white lies" are OK if it makes the sale.

 

[TwoCents]

It is misleading since any data tied to Western isn't the same data tied to Manhattan. I have my car ins through Safeco which is clearly branded as "A Liberty Mutual Company." I would never say I have my ins through LMC.

 

[jdlash]

It is misleading since any data tied to Western isn't the same data tied to Manhattan. I have my car ins through Safeco which is clearly branded as "A Liberty Mutual Company." I would never say I have my ins through LMC.

I represent Safeco. The way I would describe it when they say who is this is A company that Liberty Mutual owns that is represented through the independent market such as myself.

Saying it is Liberty Mutual would be an absolute lie!

 

[VolAgent]

I represent Safeco. The way I would describe it when they say who is this is A company that Liberty Mutual owns that is represented through the independent market such as myself.

Saying it is Liberty Mutual would be an absolute lie!

I've done the same for years. Such as, American Continental, part of Aetna. Or an Aetna company, American Continental.

Of course, it isn't just the agent. Most of the companies brand the material, Mutual of Omaha or Aenta, and then in small letters, "Our Flavor of the Day Company". While it sounds like the agent is guilty if more than just this, I can hardly blame someone in this situation. The company is very busy trying to create this impression.

After all jdlash, just which Safeco did you place them with, because Safeco also has several companies, as does Allstate, State Farm and just about every P&C company of any size.

 

[JimmyCrappedCorn]

to lead a prospect to believe they are buying from the parent carrier when in fact the policy sold is through a subsidiary?

Talked with a guy earlier that just bought a Medigap plan from Manhattan a few hours before visiting my site and running rates. That used to piss me off now I consider it an open door.

When I called and found out the sequence of events I asked, "Why did you continue to look once you signed up?".

They always give some variation of "just making sure I got the best rate".

I also have no qualms about asking what they bought. Most of the time they have no problem telling me. Occasionally they say it's none of my business and rarely, very rarely, they simply hang up.

In this case he bought a G plan from Manhattan.

So I said, "Manhattan stopped writing business in Georgia in November. If you just signed up today you bought from Western, not Manhattan".

"No, I bought from Manhattan. Been in the Medicare business over 100 years".

Medicare was created in 1965 so they can't have been in the Medicare business for over 100 years. Perhaps the guy said the company had been in business that long?

"Could be. But I bought from Manhattan, not this Western company you mentioned"

I figured that horse was dead for now so I moved on. Then he said, "As long as their renewal rates are around 4% I will just keep what I have".

Problem is, Western has only written Medigap business for a few months so we don't know about their renewals. Manhattan however has given renewals ranging from 7% to 9.5%.

He was unwavering so I asked "Do you mind if I summarize our conversation in an email? In the meanwhile you can think it over. Still have time to change your mind."

He agreed so I sent a follow up email stressing the misinformation about the carrier and a few other things. Now I wait and see if the fish takes the bait.

This isn't the first time I have run into misrepresenting the carrier. Telling folks they are buying from Mutual of Omaha when they are the parent, not the issuing carrier. But sometimes agents will say they are buying from Mutual of Omaha when all Omaha does is provide the reinsurance, or is the TPA.

Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Get the same with Aetna when they really bought from CLI, AHL or ACI or even Genworth.

I guess some agents think "white lies" are OK if it makes the sale.

They both are the same company and you are having sour grapes because you don't have enough sense to pitch the lead in the trash and move on. Final answer!

 

[jdlash]

I've done the same for years. Such as, American Continental, part of Aetna. Or an Aetna company, American Continental.

Of course, it isn't just the agent. Most of the companies brand the material, Mutual of Omaha or Aenta, and then in small letters, "Our Flavor of the Day Company". While it sounds like the agent is guilty if more than just this, I can hardly blame someone in this situation. The company is very busy trying to create this impression.

After all jdlash, just which Safeco did you place them with, because Safeco also has several companies, as does Allstate, State Farm and just about every P&C company of any size.

P&C companies are no different. They file a new "company" in order to achieve new rates, but keep the old ones because they know the retention under the old company is worth more than lower rates across the board.......

 

[jdlash]

They both are the same company and you are having sour grapes because you don't have enough sense to pitch the lead in the trash and move on. Final answer!

That's too much of a blanket statement IMO. I can tell you for a fact that Safeco isn't the same company as Liberty Mutual and representing it that way would be a COMPLETE LIE.

 

[somarco]

They both are the same company and you are having sour grapes because you don't have enough sense to pitch the lead in the trash and move on.

If you believe they are the same company then you must belong in the liar category with this agent and others.

FWIW I toss quite a few leads in the trash, or more correctly I fire them and let them know I am doing so.

But I also don't roll over if I think there is a possibility for a sale. Why? Because it just makes sense to pursue the sale unless you have a total deadbeat.

As long as the prospect is asking questions I am still in the game.

And I rarely lose.

Looks like the same cannot be said for you . . .

 

[VolAgent]

P&C companies are no different. They file a new "company" in order to achieve new rates, but keep the old ones because they know the retention under the old company is worth more than lower rates across the board.......

Don't forget tiering. The larger companies have one company for riskier drivers and another for preferred and maybe even some in between depending upon the size of the book. And just like with MOO or Aetna, it is all handled by the same people, you call the same customer service and same claims people when there is an issue. The card or the policy may mention in smaller letters the actual writing company, but the big letters say the big corporate parent.

Now, the agent saying they have been in Medicare for 100 years or talking about rate stability, that is just a bold faced lie. As Bob mentioned, Medicare has been around just over 50 years, and Western has no rate history and the rate history for Manhattan appears to be higher than what was said.

 

[JimmyCrappedCorn]

If you believe they are the same company then you must belong in the liar category with this agent and others.

FWIW I toss quite a few leads in the trash, or more correctly I fire them and let them know I am doing so.

But I also don't roll over if I think there is a possibility for a sale. Why? Because it just makes sense to pursue the sale unless you have a total deadbeat.

As long as the prospect is asking questions I am still in the game.

And I rarely lose.

Looks like the same cannot be said for you . . .

Ok Hillary. Keep sending out those cry baby e-mails and cross your fingers. Hopefully you were a lawyer before you became an insurance agent so you don't say something you were not supposed to in those e-mails.