NY LIFE Whole Life which Column?

[Life]

Hello, realistically what column should a NYlife whole life policy owner rely on?

Do you think a 1 million dollar policy funded (age 44 male preferred) with 221k over 5 years would never require anonther whole life payment? A scenario at current dividend scale reflects that. Just seems like its too good to be true...

Thanks for the help.

 

[TheLifeInsBlog]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

The illustration has 3 columns, with the left most being guaranteed. The others are both speculative based on dividends, growth rates and interest assumptions from the company.

NYLife is one of the top rated companies, with a very long-standing dividend.

But it's not guaranteed.

The final number would depend a lot on the interest rates being shown by the agent in the illustration software, the company's current projections, and other factors.

EDIT: Which product are you reviewing? VUL/WL/Custom? My assumption is Custom Whole Life based on the 5-pay.

 

[LGilmore]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

"But it's not guaranteed"

So when the dividend in a particular year is greater than the guaranteed amount if they started guaranteed dividends does it void the policy? does the extra go into a special account with the company that is not labeled surplus?

Dividends aren't guaranteed because they can't be as they are the excess the company earns based on investment returns, operating expenses and death claims paid. The dividend projection on an illustration is just that, it can be higher or lower in a given year which would create a problem either way if they were shown as guaranteed.

Also they've paid a dividend for 167 years... and are highly rated. Do you see any reason they would stop paying a dividend next year beyond the possibility of Demutualization.

Also you mention VUL... when did VUL get a dividend schedule.

And to the OP, it is possible to have a policy that doesn't require another outside premium after five years? They probably used the OPP rider and pushed the policy into premium offset in year 6. I would question if it becomes a MEC shortly there after.

OP? are you the insured or are you an agent? If you're the insured I can help you with your questions. I haven't worked for NYL in a long time, even went to court against them(agent thing, not an insured thing) and won. I own whole life policies. They've done what they've promised and I value these policies for a lot of reasons you probably heard cept this one... CONTROL. I control my whole life policies... they can't take them away, they can't raise the rates, they have to ask permission or make an offer for any changes, they can't just do them. Yes, the dividend isn't guaranteed, but it's not like they have other places to put these dollars based on how they are set up and operate. To do something different would require a vote of policyholders and probably approval by the IRS.

Anyway, good luck as far as what section to trust, need to see what you have. You can also ask for an illustration that shows a reduced dividend of 90% and see if it changes your offset year.

When I talk about premium offset situations I reduce the dividend scale and it adds a year maybe two to the situation. I do this because nobody gets upset if the dividend projection is out performed and the policy offsets early, are they?

 

[Life]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

it was a whole life policy, not a custom. I want to know if the middle column is more realistic?

doesnt show rates just guarenteed non guarenteed mid point and non guarenteed current...

the 5 year was a scenario based upon current dividened scale and i am guessing apl with a loan rate of 5 percent. the middle scenario was 50 of current dividened rate and loan interest rate of 7 percent. Want to know if this is realistic. other wise the yearly premium just continues..

 

[LGilmore]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

Does the death benefit increase?

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

"But it's not guaranteed"

So when the dividend in a particular year is greater than the guaranteed amount if they started guaranteed dividends does it void the policy? does the extra go into a special account with the company that is not labeled surplus?

Dividends aren't guaranteed because they can't be as they are the excess the company earns based on investment returns, operating expenses and death claims paid. The dividend projection on an illustration is just that, it can be higher or lower in a given year which would create a problem either way if they were shown as guaranteed.

Also they've paid a dividend for 167 years... and are highly rated. Do you see any reason they would stop paying a dividend next year beyond the possibility of Demutualization.

Also you mention VUL... when did VUL get a dividend schedule.

And to the OP, it is possible to have a policy that doesn't require another outside premium after five years? They probably used the OPP rider and pushed the policy into premium offset in year 6. I would question if it becomes a MEC shortly there after.

OP? are you the insured or are you an agent? If you're the insured I can help you with your questions. I haven't worked for NYL in a long time, even went to court against them(agent thing, not an insured thing) and won. I own whole life policies. They've done what they've promised and I value these policies for a lot of reasons you probably heard cept this one... CONTROL. I control my whole life policies... they can't take them away, they can't raise the rates, they have to ask permission or make an offer for any changes, they can't just do them. Yes, the dividend isn't guaranteed, but it's not like they have other places to put these dollars based on how they are set up and operate. To do something different would require a vote of policyholders and probably approval by the IRS.

Anyway, good luck as far as what section to trust, need to see what you have. You can also ask for an illustration that shows a reduced dividend of 90% and see if it changes your offset year.

When I talk about premium offset situations I reduce the dividend scale and it adds a year maybe two to the situation. I do this because nobody gets upset if the dividend projection is out performed and the policy offsets early, are they?

I'd be curious to know this as well...what's your objective OP?

 

[scagnt83]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

it was a whole life policy, not a custom. I want to know if the middle column is more realistic?

doesnt show rates just guarenteed non guarenteed mid point and non guarenteed current...

the 5 year was a scenario based upon current dividened scale and i am guessing apl with a loan rate of 5 percent. the middle scenario was 50 of current dividened rate and loan interest rate of 7 percent. Want to know if this is realistic. other wise the yearly premium just continues..

5 years seems pretty short for it to be paid off using Premium Offset. The agent has to be overfunding this policy to the max.
What is the Base Premium (it should be in the upper part of the illustration page)?
And what is the OPP Premium?

Does the Premium on the Mid-Point keep going? Im guessing it extends premiums for another 5 or 10 years...?

If it is important to keep it to the 5 years, a WL might not be the right product for you. A UL or IUL could do the job though.

 

[TheLifeInsBlog]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

LGilmore. I'm quite understanding of the NYL products, I assure you. I also know NYL very well. The OP asked a question about if he can trust the numbers and I offered the answer.

OP--If you're using NYL, and you want to pay it off in 5 years, I wouldn't be using a straight Whole Life. A Custom Whole Life will be far cheaper, and LGilmore brings up a good point as well about structure.

Your agent is going to need to set up the policy using DOT and OPP (NYL wording, probably not industry wide). DOT is dividend option term allowing you to add additional premiums into the policy with creating a MEC (modified endownment contract), the OPP is where you'll be stuffing in extra cash in the first few years which is beyond normal scheduled premiums.

Contact me for more questions.

 

[LGilmore]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

Life? You need to find out if the OP is an agent looking to replace or a client with a current policy. If the policy is in force, your suggestions may not play out as they require a purchase of a different product. Also explain what you mean by custom policy, is it a blended policy?

Still need to find out from the OP what type of policy we are talking about.

Are you currently with NYL or previously? Where does your familiarity come from? Been a long while for me and I am sure new products have been introduced, but isn't the bread and butter of NYL still straight up Whole Life?

 

[Life]

Re: NY LIFEWholle Life which Column?

I am a client looking to replace a vul with a whole life...I didnt know the 3 columns had different interest rates. What rates should I be seeing when I ask about the three columns of whole life. From what I am reading on the web it appears nylife has an avg of 3.87 over 10 20 years and I am guessing its just under the midpoint column.

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Found the answer...the column that most realistic is just under the mid point. NY Life has good dividends but the illustrations are not matching customers in 10 and 20 year marks...falling way short with the third column for whole and custom whole life illustrations/policies.