Talk to me about Apartment complexes with Traveler's

[AshwithanE]

I had a 105 unit apartment complex I was trying to place and the problems were no loss history (its a new purchase) and it was built in 1969, 1970 to name a few. I got quotes back from non standard companies at astronomical premiums.
Another agency got their submission to Travelers in before me so I wasn't even able to quote it with the info I had. I read risks before 1978 are not acceptable on their agent guidelines anyway. I realize this could vary (I'm in VA).
Anyway, other agency did get quote for them and it was a nice cheap quote but they have some of the buildings listed as being built in 1999??? Does anyone know if they've accepted this risk because of that?? None of it was built in 1999. It was all built in 1969 and 1970.

 

[Al3x Lee]

It sounds like the agents lied. Even if they get it placed, it will come back to bite them. I would point it out to the insured and reference the fraud notice on the application. It would be even better if you could pull the building records through the county to prove the year built.

Reiterate to the insured that it is, at the very least, misleading enough for the insurer to potentially deny coverage come claim time, but it could even lead to criminal penalties as it's fraud. Be very clear that you want to write it correctly for them and not get them into a sticky situation.

If they're signing anything that says 1999 and it has a fraud notice, they're complicit in the misrepresentation. Case law has shown that ignorance is not a good defense when it comes to insurance applications.

Here's how it reads on the acord 140 for your state:



I will note: Depending on renovations and upgrades, the carrier may consider the effective year built to be newer. You could try calling your Travelers underwriter and see if that's something they would do. Buildings built in 1970 are concerning as asbestos, lead paint and aluminum electric wiring was common. Insurers do not like any of those things.

 

[AshwithanE]

It has 2 of the 5 buildings listed as 1999?
I have tried to contact Traveler's to confirm the maximum age of properties allowed and now currently on a hold situation.

I was actually wondering if Traveler's would ever find out about this if there was a claim, etc...how would they know? I have actually helped them refine their policy quote from the other agency and request changes to benefit them. I know...I'm am ***. The only thing I'm unsure about are these ages listed on the buildings. I was wondering if they could just claim stupidity if it ever was found out. I just think it would be hard for the carrier to find this out and I don't want to be the one to ruin it for them and cause them to have to pay double the premium
I have gotten the building ages from the GIS system here. I have tried everything to figure out other options or find out more info about these properties I even looked at building and architectural plans and the plat from the inception date.

 

[Al3x Lee]

I was actually wondering if Traveler's would ever find out about this if there was a claim, etc...how would they know?

If an apartment that large were to burn down, there's likely to be some level of investigation, including pulling building permits. Not really a risk I'd like to take if I owned the buildings

I was wondering if they could just claim stupidity if it ever was found out.

Stupidity is not a valid defense. If the answer to a question is "I don't know", that's what you should put on the application. Putting incorrect info or omitting a fact is fraud. There was actually just a thread about a similar situation on the forums recently https://insurance-forums.com/commun...lose-dog-comes-back-to-bite-homeowner.111168/

I'd also encourage you to Google some caselaw to see how it worked out for the agents and insureds that didn't fill out their commercial property applications honestly. Not a good idea.

I just think it would be hard for the carrier to find this out and I don't want to be the one to ruin it for them and cause them to have to pay double the premium

You know what's really gonna ruin their day? Not having their insurance set up properly. If the only thing allowing them to get into a carrier is a lie on an application, they really aren't getting a deal. They're potentially paying half price for a policy that could be null and void if the fraud is ever uncovered. From what you've specified, Travelers is not intending to cover buildings that age. Do you think they're okay with the agent and insured telling a little white lie (Little meaning 30 years of deterioration in difference)

I have tried everything to figure out other options or find out more info about these properties

Some cities and counties only keep paper files on a building that old, usually within the community development or building department. I would contact the city that the buildings are located in and ask them how you can get a copy of the historical building plans, including the year built. Alternatively, you can sometimes pull this information from the tax assessors office

 

[AZDave]

None of it was built in 1999. It was all built in 1969 and 1970

I really hope this hard market will flush out the bad apples. Guarentee Travelers will underwrite and inspect this.

A fair fight is all I ask for. Agents that bend, withhold and outright lie are gonna have a harder time with inspections and re underwriting activity's.

 

[Al3x Lee]

I really hope this hard market will flush out the bad apples. Guarentee Travelers will underwrite and inspect this.

A fair fight is all I ask for. Agents that bend, withhold and outright lie are gonna have a harder time with inspections and re underwriting activity's.

Indeed, it's gonna hurt if it gets inspected and then backdate cancelled for false information lol

 

[Markthebroker]

I had a 105 unit apartment complex I was trying to place and the problems were no loss history (its a new purchase) and it was built in 1969, 1970 to name a few. I got quotes back from non standard companies at astronomical premiums.
Another agency got their submission to Travelers in before me so I wasn't even able to quote it with the info I had. I read risks before 1978 are not acceptable on their agent guidelines anyway. I realize this could vary (I'm in VA).
Anyway, other agency did get quote for them and it was a nice cheap quote but they have some of the buildings listed as being built in 1999??? Does anyone know if they've accepted this risk because of that?? None of it was built in 1999. It was all built in 1969 and 1970.

I'm at the point I rarely compete against another agent. Either the client works with only me, or not at all. So, I haven't had to deal with a crappy situation like this recently, but I've come across situations like this many times.

Man that stings. I know this doesn't help much now, but that agent will get theirs. Trust me.

 

[Al3x Lee]

Either the client works with only me, or not at all.

Well, I guess Ashe needs to decide if she would prefer an agent with smooth hair, a cape, and more experience or an agent with a Delorean and delusions of grandeur. Important decisions are never easy.

 

[Markthebroker]

Well, I guess Ashe needs to decide if she would prefer an agent with smooth hair, a cape, and more experience or an agent with a Delorean and delusions of grandeur. Important decisions are never easy.

Ladies dig the cape. Just sayin'.

The Delorean is pretty hard to compete with, though...

 

[NY independent]

I have a very large book with Travelers and work with them daily. If there is a loss, they WILL investigate and if they find out the buildings are old, the will declare a "material misrepresentation" denying the claim. Then it's on the agent who sold the policy. I can't tell you how many times I've lost deals in the past because of shady practices like this by other agents.