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Top 10 Reasons ObamaCare is Unraveling
- Thread starter houcoogster
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- 2,908
Oh, the whole thing is unraveling no question about it. That is part of the plan. Guess who the folks are going to want to make it right: The feds and more feds.
You always have terrific insight into politics, Winter. I could be delusional or on target, only time will tell, but I think the end is just about near for more govt control and the march towards socialism.
The European model (France & GB) are coming apart at the seams. If we continue on the same track we won't be far behind mostly because we are moving forward at a faster pace and no way to fund the continued growth.
There is a perfect economic storm brewing here. High unemployment, no growth GDP, bank failures and housing foreclosures and no more money available to feed this monster.
Whoever succeeds in controlling either or both houses of Congress must be willing to follow the mandate of the people or else they will be out on their butts in 2012.
We simply cannot afford 2 more years of this crap, much less 6 more years.
The European model (France & GB) are coming apart at the seams. If we continue on the same track we won't be far behind mostly because we are moving forward at a faster pace and no way to fund the continued growth.
There is a perfect economic storm brewing here. High unemployment, no growth GDP, bank failures and housing foreclosures and no more money available to feed this monster.
Whoever succeeds in controlling either or both houses of Congress must be willing to follow the mandate of the people or else they will be out on their butts in 2012.
We simply cannot afford 2 more years of this crap, much less 6 more years.
- 14,809
I've heard a lot of "this was planned to crash and burn so we can switch to single payer."
First of all, they couldn't even get the public option to stick. With a Democratic president, Senate and House the bill would have been DOA with the public option. Even with the removal of the public option it had to pass through reconciliation.
If there's not enough public support for a public option, there's almost no support for single payer or any further government control of health care.
That if this current law crashes and burns, the gov't can simply exercise more control is illegal. The law does not provide for any such action.
To wit, if it starts to unravel all you'll see is HHS giving more and more concessions.
First of all, they couldn't even get the public option to stick. With a Democratic president, Senate and House the bill would have been DOA with the public option. Even with the removal of the public option it had to pass through reconciliation.
If there's not enough public support for a public option, there's almost no support for single payer or any further government control of health care.
That if this current law crashes and burns, the gov't can simply exercise more control is illegal. The law does not provide for any such action.
To wit, if it starts to unravel all you'll see is HHS giving more and more concessions.
- 2,908
Well it is a multi-dimensional picture for sure. I can believe, as I do, that we are on an inevitable move toward federal takeover of health care (we are already there) and also agree wholeheartedly that the march toward government here and in europe is toward conservatism.
The Brits are dialing the NHS budget down, and slashing most of the national budget. Same in France. I dont disagree with that because those processes are well underway. I dont, in my wildest imagination, nor does anyone in those countries think their health systems are going to be turned over to the private sector though, anymore than anyone here thinks that medicare will be privatized.
We have nothing but explosive cost crisis ahead of us in health care in this country (already well under way). You can only artificially hold down costs through rate caps (which of course is not cost containment) or somehting has to give. Either you pass the costs through in higher rates or you watch carrier availability plummet or else you have government intervention/subsidy with all the controls and takeover that go with it. There is no way around it at this point. If there is, it would have been nice if the pubs had floated it.
People act helpless and scared when they are helpless and scared. People can hate the idea of more government but be worried as hell if the government doesnt take things over as they did in the financial crisis. A lot of ideological purity about not needing more government goes out the window when people are scared or wake up one day and find they dont have health care or do but can't make their car payment.
(quite a few people here want to spin the rap that it is only chiselers who dont want to pay the premiums and so on. Fine, work with that as long as it works for you. It is factor but not the whole picture. Also, some of you have never seen what guaranteed issue does to rates so dont be so quick to judge what is affordable and what is not just yet.. You will see before long)
The system is headed toward crisis mode. There are explosive factors at play that are not going to go away and neither Obama nor the Republicans have proposed anything that would help other than a bunch of 2014 crap that will theoretically do this and that.
It is an ugly picture.
The Brits are dialing the NHS budget down, and slashing most of the national budget. Same in France. I dont disagree with that because those processes are well underway. I dont, in my wildest imagination, nor does anyone in those countries think their health systems are going to be turned over to the private sector though, anymore than anyone here thinks that medicare will be privatized.
We have nothing but explosive cost crisis ahead of us in health care in this country (already well under way). You can only artificially hold down costs through rate caps (which of course is not cost containment) or somehting has to give. Either you pass the costs through in higher rates or you watch carrier availability plummet or else you have government intervention/subsidy with all the controls and takeover that go with it. There is no way around it at this point. If there is, it would have been nice if the pubs had floated it.
People act helpless and scared when they are helpless and scared. People can hate the idea of more government but be worried as hell if the government doesnt take things over as they did in the financial crisis. A lot of ideological purity about not needing more government goes out the window when people are scared or wake up one day and find they dont have health care or do but can't make their car payment.
(quite a few people here want to spin the rap that it is only chiselers who dont want to pay the premiums and so on. Fine, work with that as long as it works for you. It is factor but not the whole picture. Also, some of you have never seen what guaranteed issue does to rates so dont be so quick to judge what is affordable and what is not just yet.. You will see before long)
The system is headed toward crisis mode. There are explosive factors at play that are not going to go away and neither Obama nor the Republicans have proposed anything that would help other than a bunch of 2014 crap that will theoretically do this and that.
It is an ugly picture.
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I don't see this unraveling at all unless there is a repeal, which the earliest that could take place is 2012 - by that time we will be knee deep in this mess. Best you can hope for his some public outcry and watering down. Time will tell..
This is for you Winter... I about puked when I read this:
Portland (Maine) residents will vote Nov. 2 on a proposal to give legal residents who are not U.S. citizens the right to vote in local elections, joining places like San Francisco and Chicago that have already loosened the rules or are considering it. "I like the Democrats. I want to vote for Democrats, but I don't have citizenship," he said.
This is for you Winter... I about puked when I read this:
Portland (Maine) residents will vote Nov. 2 on a proposal to give legal residents who are not U.S. citizens the right to vote in local elections, joining places like San Francisco and Chicago that have already loosened the rules or are considering it. "I like the Democrats. I want to vote for Democrats, but I don't have citizenship," he said.
- 2,908
Yeh, as I said it is multi-dimensional. On one level I agree that it is not unraveling at all in the sense that Obamacare is on the books and it is full speed ahead to keep piling on more and more fed controls and nothing is going to change that regardless of who is elected. Health care is in the hands of the feds now both before and after 2012.
If, on the other hand, by "unraveling" one means that the goals and objectives of Obamacare are about to shiite the bed then I certainly agree with that too. That part about achieving cost reduction and affordable coverage is headed toward total collapse, regardless of who is in power. We missed the window of opportunity for putting a viable plan in place so now everything will be dictated by response to crisis, just as happened in the financial sector. Those who disagree with that statement by saying that we did put a viable plan in place and it was Obamacare can ignore my comments and are all set.
Frigging absurd the way we are running this country.
Change you can believe in.
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A lot of comments here are still premised on the old belief that everything is all set if you can just hold Obamacare at bay. It is not. You have to have an alternative. Costs and premiums are going through the roof.
Obama's response to CA attempt to raise premiums? Send a frigging army and millions of dollars to every state (already arrived at mine) to help them review rate increases and monitor insurance companies and have Sebelius announce that the feds were going to start reviewing rates. You think the feds are going away as Obamacare fails to reach it's goals, dream on? Same way that fed oversight of of the financial industry is going to go away just because Obama frigged most of that up too. It is not.
Fed involvement would have gone away if we had put some plan in place to control premiums and costs. There is no such plan in place, now we move from one crisis to the next to see what the feds are going to do about it.
The dems couldnt rally support for the public option because there was a belief that costs and premiums could be controlled without going down that road. That is fine, as long as you can keep the public convinced that they are not paying more. Within days after the vote on Obamacare, there was tsunami of rate increase requests around the country by carriers who did not want to bring it up while the bill was still on the table. If they can hold off on the rates increases, then everything and everyone is all set. If not, then refer to previous comments. You decide what the most likely scenario is.
Obama's response to CA attempt to raise premiums? Send a frigging army and millions of dollars to every state (already arrived at mine) to help them review rate increases and monitor insurance companies and have Sebelius announce that the feds were going to start reviewing rates. You think the feds are going away as Obamacare fails to reach it's goals, dream on? Same way that fed oversight of of the financial industry is going to go away just because Obama frigged most of that up too. It is not.
Fed involvement would have gone away if we had put some plan in place to control premiums and costs. There is no such plan in place, now we move from one crisis to the next to see what the feds are going to do about it.
The dems couldnt rally support for the public option because there was a belief that costs and premiums could be controlled without going down that road. That is fine, as long as you can keep the public convinced that they are not paying more. Within days after the vote on Obamacare, there was tsunami of rate increase requests around the country by carriers who did not want to bring it up while the bill was still on the table. If they can hold off on the rates increases, then everything and everyone is all set. If not, then refer to previous comments. You decide what the most likely scenario is.
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Winter isn't the only Maine Resident here....Portland is a hub of Democratic Ideas....I can just imagine the system that would be put in place, supposedly these people would only be able to vote on local city measures.
But the funny thing is these legal and non-legal residents can vote now, Maine does not require any proof of ID to register to vote nor when it comes to actually casting a vote.
I'm all for being required to provide valid ID...These people are adults and if stopped on the street by a police office are required to have a valid ID so why not to vote?
