Ohio National Versus Penn Mutual

[BatonRougeChicken]

Any thoughts on these two carriers?

I use Ohio National quite a bit, they're a solid mutual carrier, GREAT agent support and service. Annualized commission, infinite renewals, off their permanent products, seems to treat their clients and dividend scale fairly. However, they do not have a GUL product.

I have yet to meet the Penn Mutual wholesaler yet, but they have informed me they have "better underwriting than Ohio National" and they also have a GUL product. How is their par WL versus Ohio National's? I've read up on this forum about Penn Mutual's treatment with their producers and it seems to be nothing but good things, but I'm curious to find out about their products. In addition, they say there is NO WAY they can annualize commissions? Is this true?

I also use a lot of ING right now, my upline gives me annualize commissions, they have fair underwriting, competitively priced products for my clients. However, their GUL product does not pay renewals after the 10th year. Anyone know of any carriers that would? In addition to annualizing commissions?

 

[Norwayguy]

Any thoughts on these two carriers?

I use Ohio National quite a bit, they're a solid mutual carrier, GREAT agent support and service. Annualized commission, infinite renewals, off their permanent products, seems to treat their clients and dividend scale fairly. However, they do not have a GUL product.

I have yet to meet the Penn Mutual wholesaler yet, but they have informed me they have "better underwriting than Ohio National" and they also have a GUL product. How is their par WL versus Ohio National's? I've read up on this forum about Penn Mutual's treatment with their producers and it seems to be nothing but good things, but I'm curious to find out about their products. In addition, they say there is NO WAY they can annualize commissions? Is this true?

I also use a lot of ING right now, my upline gives me annualize commissions, they have fair underwriting, competitively priced products for my clients. However, their GUL product does not pay renewals after the 10th year. Anyone know of any carriers that would? In addition to annualizing commissions?

Now where have I seen this before....I think someones TGP has been pierced

 

[Stonewall]

There par whole life is great!

 

[DHK]

I'd rather post my opinion here about this kind of decision (rather than elsewhere).

It's my opinion that COMPANIES DON'T MATTER! (Huh? Yeah, I know this flies in the face of every company. BGA, IMO, etc.'s training mantra.)

Company doesn't matter. It's policy structure, the agent behind the sale, and the strategy of the policy - and the ISSUANCE of that policy.

The fact is (as long as a company is financially sound), you buy, you die, IT PAYS! Everything else is just noise and impedes the communication process.

Every company is great... but I don't compete with companies. I compete against agents - or the current prospect's "status quo". Their status quo may be that they don't own ANY insurance. My competition is not an agent, but the reasons why they should own insurance when they don't have any right now.

Now, if I do my job right... the prospect may eventually ask which company I represent. If the prospect wants to hire me by buying a policy, they'll make out their check to "xyz mutual".

It's the agent who can inspire the change in the prospect that matters. That said - I want to do business with a company that makes it easy for me to do business with them MY way! I don't want to reinvent my processes just to do business with a certain company. I want my processes and the company's flexibility to fit like a hand in a glove.

I do have a PGA contract with Ohio National. I can do VPD business with them (minimum 5+ lives). I can print out term rate sheets very easily. I can fax in my completed applications and mail in the binding check if collected. I can ask anyone there just about any question and get all the help and support I need for a case.


I don't care about the dividend scale. Why? Because the rule of 1 to 100 applies. In 1 year, 100% of your illustrations will be wrong. So, while an illustration may be required, I simply don't care about it. I don't want to sell my policies based on anything that can change at anytime.

Now, it appears that Penn Mutual may have a MORE complete product line for you to consider based on the market you're serving. The only reason you're not "jumping ship" to Penn is because of the compensation structure.

If you need annualized commissions, you need to start improving your personal balance sheets so you can be paid "as earned" and not worry about charge-backs.

So, if it were me, I'd probably keep the Ohio National going as long as possible and start placing GUL business with Penn Mutual. Once you can get off the annualized commissions, then I'd consider placing 100% of your business with Penn - AS LONG AS you can still do your business YOUR way with Penn.

BTW, I remember seeing some kind of agent report some time ago where one of the top producers with Ohio National did just under 900 lives for the year. (I think it was 900??) It's a pretty impressive accomplishment. So, when someone else had mentioned that either company will support mediocrity of production, I would think of that report.

 

[Full Throttle]

From a practical stand point, I would feel good selling both carriers to my clients. I have a bias for true mutuals, which gives the edge to Penn. The local support is also better with Penn in my area. As you said earlier, no advances.

 

[BNTRS]

DHK has laid out some very good information to live by. I've never had a client come back to me years later and point out that company A did better IRR wise than company B. I don't spend any time trying to figure out who would have been the better choice some time down the road.

Yes there are companies that are good and offer certain features that others don't, but that's for wholesalers and General Agents to get excited about.

You don't really need to choose one over the other, you could always use both. In fact it might be a better idea to leave the door open with both.

There are a lot of other companies out there with GUL products, though not at many as there used to be.

Ultimately both Penn Mutual and Ohio National are good bets.

 

[WPM]

DHK made some excellent points.

For me, there are only about 10 companies that I am comfortable using, unless there is a serious health condition to deal with. You have to find what works best for your business model and belief system.

 

[CFP83]

Good conversation here on this one.....lots of good thoughts and feedback.

I do the majority of my life business with Mass Mutual and Penn Mutual.

I think that you'll find that Penn has arguably the most complete, competive insurance line-up of any mutual. On the term side they have 10/15/20 year and the rates are very competitive....waiver of premium on term converts to whole-life if insured becomes disabled. Penn's one whole life product can either be paid-up at either age 65 or 100 and is VERY competitive with any of the major mutuals. On the UL side their GUL is nicely priced and currently has a 5.25% crediting rate. Finally their IUL has a current cap of 13% and floor of 2%.

I've found it very hard to find a good mutual company who has an extremely strong, complete UL and term portfolio...this is Penn's strong point.

 

[WPM]

Good conversation here on this one.....lots of good thoughts and feedback.

I do the majority of my life business with Mass Mutual and Penn Mutual.

I think that you'll find that Penn has arguably the most complete, competive insurance line-up of any mutual. On the term side they have 10/15/20 year and the rates are very competitive....waiver of premium on term converts to whole-life if insured becomes disabled. Penn's one whole life product can either be paid-up at either age 65 or 100 and is VERY competitive with any of th major mutuals. On the UL side their GUL is nicely priced and currently has a 5.25% crediting rate. Finally their IUL has a current cap of 13% and floor of 2%.

I've found it very hard to find a good mutual company who has an extremely strong, complete UL and term portfolio...this is Penn's strong point.

Do you have a direct appt. with Penn or do you use a BGA?

 

[dan21]

Lately I have received some literature from Ohio National, asking me to mail in for info. for a PPGA contract. What is a PPGA contract?
Thanks,
Dan