Good discussion and thanks for typing in that waiver language. I was at NY Life and I still spend time trying to forget whatever managing partners said. In my case, at the largest GA in Melville NY, the managing partner said "the waiver of premium is like a cheap DI policy." I mean yea if you go on waiver they'll pay the WL premium. The problem is going on waiver and what that means. That's why this is a helpful discussion.
Review of Waiver of Premium Riders
- Thread starter LGilmore
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Yeah... just like credit life and disability is like a cheap disability policy. Ugh.
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Thanks for keeping this going. I think it is good, maybe helpful to agents and companies whom I am sure monitor this site.
It will be a bit before I can get up to my office (need a spotter) and pull my policy. Honestly, I am not sure what it says, as I am going off the three letters NYL sent me while my NYL DI claims were being paid and processed by UNUM. (that's who handles NYL DI now)
The first two told me how sorry they were and they would stay on top of my situation and would work in coordination with UNUM on my case.
The last was the letter asking in simplest terms "any occupation". No by education or anything, just "any occupation".. This just frustrated me because outside of a coma, or severe brain injury, I can't think of a situation where a person couldn't do "any occupation", as if you can speak, you could conceivably work. That's why I am wondering if technology has rendered this a useless rider as "any occupation" is much harder to declare than in years past.
I am a little pissed because they have access to everything that Unum was given, so why send two letters building up hope that my life policies would participate, only to do a FU "any occupation" in the end.
The ironic thing is I am on waiver of premium for the DI policies...
Kinda wish I didn't have to go from a size 12 to 5 shoe to learn all this firsthand, but this will make me a better agent as I will speak from experience.
And side note those upset with the ACA, I'm about a quarter mill plus into this baby. Where would I be with a limited benefit policy? My cost has been about 4k of that 250k. I totally agree with AgentSC on this good insurance on health and disability will allow you to maintain your lifestyle fairly well.
It is not that I am in economic peril of my life waiver of premium being picked up or not, because I have good insurance. This thread has simply been about the "any occupation" thing they threw at me and it rubbed me the wrong way.
Cheers
It will be a bit before I can get up to my office (need a spotter) and pull my policy. Honestly, I am not sure what it says, as I am going off the three letters NYL sent me while my NYL DI claims were being paid and processed by UNUM. (that's who handles NYL DI now)
The first two told me how sorry they were and they would stay on top of my situation and would work in coordination with UNUM on my case.
The last was the letter asking in simplest terms "any occupation". No by education or anything, just "any occupation".. This just frustrated me because outside of a coma, or severe brain injury, I can't think of a situation where a person couldn't do "any occupation", as if you can speak, you could conceivably work. That's why I am wondering if technology has rendered this a useless rider as "any occupation" is much harder to declare than in years past.
I am a little pissed because they have access to everything that Unum was given, so why send two letters building up hope that my life policies would participate, only to do a FU "any occupation" in the end.
The ironic thing is I am on waiver of premium for the DI policies...
Kinda wish I didn't have to go from a size 12 to 5 shoe to learn all this firsthand, but this will make me a better agent as I will speak from experience.
And side note those upset with the ACA, I'm about a quarter mill plus into this baby. Where would I be with a limited benefit policy? My cost has been about 4k of that 250k. I totally agree with AgentSC on this good insurance on health and disability will allow you to maintain your lifestyle fairly well.
It is not that I am in economic peril of my life waiver of premium being picked up or not, because I have good insurance. This thread has simply been about the "any occupation" thing they threw at me and it rubbed me the wrong way.
Cheers
I can count on one hand the number of policies I've sold with WP. I wouldn't sell it to my own family, so why sell to clients unless they really want it? Most of the people buying WP have no disability insurance, or just the garbage coverage from their employer. The definitions used are usually crap. Usually a waste of money IMO, better to extend to a longer term or increase the benefit amount instead. Priorities...
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Having no DI would be a damn good reason to add a WP Rider... if having and keeping life insurance is a priority, and you have no way to pay those premiums if you are disabled, then not adding it is very illogical. Now when a client has a good DI policy or is in a position where a disability would not impair their ability to pay premiums, then I see it as a waste.
Interesting side thought. Since you've arguably lost two ADL's (bathing and transferring) there's a chance you could trigger benefits from an ADBR. Those that waive premiums upon trigger would effectively give you a waiver of premium.
I realize your policy way precedes the advent of these riders (and I also realize NYL is still dragging it's feet on offering this benefit to new policyholders). It's just funny to me that you could theoretically get waiver through the rider that is supposed to trigger upon serious illness or injury, but not through the rider that is supposed to offer that benefit.
On a more personal note, I have a close family member who--by the sounds of it--experienced something similar to your circumstances a few years ago. It is certainly a process and the road to recovery can be long. I seriously hope recovery comes as quickly and easily as possible.
I realize your policy way precedes the advent of these riders (and I also realize NYL is still dragging it's feet on offering this benefit to new policyholders). It's just funny to me that you could theoretically get waiver through the rider that is supposed to trigger upon serious illness or injury, but not through the rider that is supposed to offer that benefit.
On a more personal note, I have a close family member who--by the sounds of it--experienced something similar to your circumstances a few years ago. It is certainly a process and the road to recovery can be long. I seriously hope recovery comes as quickly and easily as possible.
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"Interesting side thought. Since you've arguably lost two ADL's (bathing and transferring) there's a chance you could trigger benefits from an ADBR. Those that waive premiums upon trigger would effectively give you a waiver of premium. "
Yes that is interesting. It might be a selling point for that product. The irony is NYL is already waiving the premium on the DI policies as they consider me totally disabled. But the life department we'll wait and see.
Yes that is interesting. It might be a selling point for that product. The irony is NYL is already waiving the premium on the DI policies as they consider me totally disabled. But the life department we'll wait and see.
Man LGilmore, hope you make a quick recovery. I can only imagine... I hope NYL comes through for you. Hang in there.
The only companies I have experience with WP riders are Mutual Trust and ONL.
Off the top of my head....
Mutual Trust has 2yr or 5yr own occ... ONL has 2yr I believe. I know MTL has the ability to pay your PUA's (it costs more), I think ONL only will do it up to $10k (I think). I questioned ONL about what the trigger was to qualify as "disabled" and after talking to 2 underwriters the best I got was "you can't do your job". As it is, I don't have any clients using the WP rider yet.
It would be nice to know what companies have really good riders, and which don't...and more importantly, how they honor what they have. Good thread.
The only companies I have experience with WP riders are Mutual Trust and ONL.
Off the top of my head....
Mutual Trust has 2yr or 5yr own occ... ONL has 2yr I believe. I know MTL has the ability to pay your PUA's (it costs more), I think ONL only will do it up to $10k (I think). I questioned ONL about what the trigger was to qualify as "disabled" and after talking to 2 underwriters the best I got was "you can't do your job". As it is, I don't have any clients using the WP rider yet.
It would be nice to know what companies have really good riders, and which don't...and more importantly, how they honor what they have. Good thread.
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I called and left a message for the claims rep that handles one of my ONL clients that is on WP. She has been on waiver for several years. She has Marfans Syndrome, She worked as a proof reader for the power Rangers animation, I believe. She can do all her ADLs, drives, runs her household etc.. My call was to ask what happens at the end of the level period of the term. The CS rep said the rider ends at 65. I questioned if he was not talking about the normal age when the rider comes off versus when the claim would stop. He and the superviser were guessing. I am hoping that the waiver waives all premiums till she goes back to work or dies.
Here is an example of another company, United Heritage.
In 2000 I wrote a 54 yr old male a $100,000.00 20 yr level term with WP. Of the $59mo $13. was for the WP. I already had a WL on him. About 2006 he hurt his back and could no longer work at the dairy where he worked. He went on waiver. In 2010 UH contacted me to let me know that the term conversion option was about to end and he needed to convert. We converted it to a Non Par WL still under waiver. He is now 70 has a $100,000.00 policy under waiver with abot $8,000 in CV. He cashed in the small WL policy and took about $20,000 CV. Oh, and I made over $5,000 on the conversion.
I have another client that was a SR Cadilac Tech at one of the larger dealerships. Now blind due to diabetes. He has been on waiver about ten years he is about age 59 now. All cost on his $300,000.00 UL along with the $150,000.00 spouse rider are waived. I think he has pulled out something like $50,000.00 of cash values. Cash Values are back up to $18,000. Obviously he is much more dependent on his wife and her daycare business so we wrote her a large policy with WP.
I am a believer.
Edit: I should add I have many more clients that have never use the WP rider than have used it.
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