Mormons’ Distaste for Donald Trump Puts Utah Up for Grabs

[nylife11023]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/us/politics/mormons-trump-utah.html

This surprised me... given DKH's posting here.

I don't know the legitimacy of the two authors below in the Mormon community so I'll just reprint a snip without comment. Perhaps DHK can elucidate.

“People who normally vote Republican are in a terrible state of ambivalence right now,” said Tim Chambless, a political scientist at the University of Utah. “They are so undecided. They want to vote, but they aren’t sure how to vote.”
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* * *​

And there is his stance against taking in refugees from abroad.

“His rhetoric and the church’s rhetoric on refugees could not be more different,” said J. Quin Monson, a co-author of “Seeking the Promised Land: Mormons and American Politics.”​

 

[DHK]

I'm a different breed of Mormon. I (generally) know how to think.

A lot of mormons are still too butt-hurt over the loss of Romney and still want him to run. They think of him as the man on the white horse to save the Constitution when it is "hanging by a thread" based on a non-doctrinal prophecy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Horse_Prophecy

I'm not voting for president of the Church. I'm voting for President of the United States... a secular position. That doesn't mean I don't look to my faith to help me learn how to think and interpret events, but I still vote with my own mind.

Regarding refugees, there was a talk in our last general conference (a meeting of the entire church broadcast around the world) that discussed taking in refugees.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/04/refuge-from-the-storm?lang=eng

The problem I have is that in an effort to be Christ-like, are they choosing to ignore safety and security? Just because someone is homeless doesn't mean you take them into your home. The Elizabeth Smart case is a good example of that. She was abducted from her home because her father hired a drifter to do some work on their home.

Anyway, sure, Utah may be confused, and it may even vote blue this year. Who knows.

DT basically had not assume that he has ANY state "in the bag".

 

[AgentOrange]

I'm a different breed of Mormon. I (generally) know how to think.

A lot of mormons are still too butt-hurt over the loss of Romney and still want him to run. They think of him as the man on the white horse to save the Constitution when it is "hanging by a thread" based on a non-doctrinal prophecy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Horse_Prophecy

I'm not voting for president of the Church. I'm voting for President of the United States... a secular position. That doesn't mean I don't look to my faith to help me learn how to think and interpret events, but I still vote with my own mind.

Regarding refugees, there was a talk in our last general conference (a meeting of the entire church broadcast around the world) that discussed taking in refugees.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/04/refuge-from-the-storm?lang=eng

The problem I have is that in an effort to be Christ-like, are they choosing to ignore safety and security? Just because someone is homeless doesn't mean you take them into your home. The Elizabeth Smart case is a good example of that. She was abducted from her home because her father hired a drifter to do some work on their home.

Anyway, sure, Utah may be confused, and it may even vote blue this year. Who knows.

DT basically had not assume that he has ANY state "in the bag".

The electoral map for Trump us a living nightmare. Clinton is shutting down Virginia and Colorado operations because her leads are big there. She is expanding in North Carolina and putting 12 offices on the ground in Georgia. If Georgia is competitive, so is South Carolina.

The fact that Trump has to fight in the southeast makes Pennsylvania and Ohio nearly impossible. Utah is cherry on top of the cherry, on top of the cherry.

This isn't saying Clinton will win these states that are traditionally republican, it's Trump having to fight for easy pick ups.

But again, this isn't about Trump losing, he's going to lose, it's the Senate and the House republicans should be worried about.

 

[Robert Barney]

I have to admit, Utah is looking bad:

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Utah: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein

 

[nylife11023]

I have to admit, Utah is looking bad:

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Utah: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein

It was a rather small sample... it says 858 LV. I don't know what LV stands for. Maybe this is valid, but I'd prefer to see something more recent with a larger sample.

DHK who is a Mormon says he is looking for a president and is not concerned with character or anything to do with moral clarity. That said, and I have no reason to doubt him, knowing what I know about Mormons I think most Mormons (as well as Christians) will be looking first at the candidate, his/her moral fiber, his/her commitment to the principles of Christianity and second to his (or her) policies.

Maybe religionists are as policy oriented as the *** Barney is, but I rather doubt it. I believe that they, like most everyone else, vote for the person they personally like, whom they could sit and have a beer with, whom they feel will not start a nuclear war, and who has the mental stability to administer the executive branch fairly. Given the choice between DT and HRC, I think HRC wins if indeed that is the metric.... if for no other reason than DT fails in so many more areas of concern than HRC does.

 

[DHK]

I just don't believe a word of it. I'm sure she had a great research team put this together to "name-drop" a bunch of Mormons to try to appeal to Utahans.

Exclusive: Hillary Clinton: What I have in common with Utah leaders — religious freedom and the Constitution | Deseret News

 

[Winter_123]

I just don't believe a word of it. I'm sure she had a great research team put this together to "name-drop" a bunch of Mormons to try to appeal to Utahans.

Exclusive: Hillary Clinton: What I have in common with Utah leaders — religious freedom and the Constitution | Deseret News

"I’ve been fighting to defend religious freedom for years. As secretary of state, I made it a cornerstone of our foreign policy to protect the rights of religious minorities around the world — from Coptic Christians in Egypt to Buddhists in Tibet."


You gotta be shiiting me. And how has her "cornerstone" worked out? It is another area where she and her bootlickers cite her extensive experience in certain areas while neglecting to note that the experience has been a catastrophic failure. Tibet continues to be a forced colony of China which is systematically eliminating buddhism though cultural genocide, and Christianity will soon be eradicated from the mideast, europe, and africa at this rate in favor of islam.

Total, total crock.

Meanwhile, in an ungodly savvy move, Putin is aggressively restoring relations and liberties with the Orthodox Church and it is not because he had a conversion on the road to Damascus. He needs cultural and institutional support for the fight against the downside of Islam and to have them supporting his government. Not something the europeans were worried about until it is now too late, and something that Obama never worried about, being of Muslim *heritage* and sympathy.

 

[Robert Barney]

I just don't believe a word of it. I'm sure she had a great research team put this together to "name-drop" a bunch of Mormons to try to appeal to Utahans.

Exclusive: Hillary Clinton: What I have in common with Utah leaders — religious freedom and the Constitution | Deseret News

Well let's not forget that she's happy to be married to a serial polygamist. While old Bill is only officially married to one woman, he does keep a number of extras on hand at any one point in time. You could call them concubines.

Hillary doesn't seem too concerned about that at all. I freely admit it probably has nothing to do with her religious convictions or sympathies. In fact I suspect that she and Bill share (or shared) the same fondness for multiple female partners.

And I don't know where the Mormon church is really at with polygamy these days, given that they were pressed by the government to give it up. I think, given the broad-minded new found love of gay marriage, that the Mormon church is owed an official apology. Maybe in the midst of Hillary's pandering to the Mormon's, they could ask for that and the commitment to undo laws banning polygamy.

 

[nylife11023]

Maybe in the midst of Hillary's pandering to the Mormon's, they could ask for that and the commitment to undo laws banning polygamy.

Wait a minute. What am I hearing. The man who takes every word in the bible literally is against polygamy?

Have you ever even read the bible? It is full of polygamy!

 

[Robert Barney]

Wait a minute. What am I hearing. The man who takes every word in the bible literally is against polygamy?

Have you ever even read the bible? It is full of polygamy!

I am not opposed to polygamy for the simple reason the Bible isn't. I am opposed to it for political reasons.

Having said that, I made the case (which you didn't bother to read) that if society is going to allow gay marriage (which it now does) then the U.S. government owes the Mormons an apology. Now would be a great time for Mormons to press Hillary and ask her if she will now change the laws that were used to repress their religious freedoms and beliefs.