Does "C-pap" Count As Oxygen Use?

[jacobtn]

A standard CPAP is not a problem with any carrier, FE or Med Supp.

Monumental's field guide says of sleep apnea, "sleep apnea is categorized as chronic respiratory disease as is cronic shortness of breath." pg 37

and your point is?

 

[oceanofsand]

A standard CPAP is not a problem with any carrier, FE or Med Supp.

Monumental's field guide says of sleep apnea, "sleep apnea is categorized as chronic respiratory disease as is cronic shortness of breath." pg 37

Good info & to the point. Thanks.

 

[retread]

(BTW: Pumping blood TO the lungs is NOT the same as having blood IN the lungs.)

What I mean to say by this statement, is that when we speak of "blood", we normally think about "whole blood", i.e. both red cells (which contain hemoglobin that gives it the red color) and plasma, which is a clear fluid. Red Blood Cells (RBCs) are larger in size than the components of plasma and do not pass as readily across blood vessel walls. You could say they "swim" in the plasma.

In the lungs, small organs called alveoli exhange gases from the air and blood in a manner that normally keep them separately contained, so that the air can come into and go out of the lungs and the blood remains in the vessels. The alveoli are constructed in such a way that sometimes plasma will escape, but not RBCs. However, in serious failure, RBCs may escape, too. Most often the plasma escaping is the "fluid" in the lungs we speak of, as in the case I was referring to.

I suppose you can argue any part of blood is still blood, but usually we distinguish between them as I have done. The point is, that IN MOST CASES, when we talk of fluid in the lungs, we are discussing plasma and not whole blood. Therefore, I was attempting to distinguish between blood being carried from the heart TO the lungs (normal alveoli function) and blood IN the lungs, which is a traumatic failure of the alveoli.
------------------
whoops... I didn't mean to erase everything else... now I can't get it back.

 

[arnguy]

OMG, I thought this thread had something to do with the Pap Test. I'm still hung over from last night!

 

[retread]

OMG, I thought this thread had something to do with the Pap Test. I'm still hung over from last night!

Sorry to inform you, but the rabbit died.

 

[G.Gordon]

PAP test is not a pregers test.

 

[WinoBlues]

Sorry to inform you, but the rabbit died.

Feets don't fail me now!

 

[VaDwayne]

While I will not argue every point you bring up, I will say a couple of things:
1) CHF results in FLUID (not blood, but blood products) in the lungs due to the circulatory system's inability to carry that fluid to the kidneys where it can be excreted. This is especially important for CHF patients with severe kidney disease. Diuretics (lasix, etc) are used to assist ridding the body of excess fluids. Sometimes this won't work for one reason or another. Laying flat puts less stress on the weak heart (a LEFT ventricle issue) that can't pump as well against gravity, so the fluid in the legs can be circulated to the kidney(s). This may be required in stage 3 and/or stage 4 CHF. Fluid buildup in the lungs may result in pneumonia, not to mention drowning. CPAP may or may not be indicated. (BTW: Pumping blood TO the lungs is NOT the same as having blood IN the lungs.)

FOR THE SAKE OF BEING SILLY AND DEBATING CHF ON AN INSURANCE FORUM, please watch the following video

AND
More information from an outside source:

Treating Congestive Heart Failure with CPAP
Congestive Heart Failure (CHF) is defined as, “excessive blood or fluid in the
lungs or body tissues caused by the failure of ventricles to pump blood
effectively”.
The condition is termed congestive because the fluids congest, or clog the
organs. It is termed heart failure because the congestion both results from and
also aggravates failure of the heart to function properly.
Congestive Heart failure occurs when the left ventricle cannot pump out the
amount of blood entering the ventricle, or when the ventricle is damaged and
cannot effectively pump enough blood to meet the body’s requirements. It may
also occur due to a build up of excess fluid in the body due to kidneys being
damaged or not functioning properly due to disease.
Blood begins to congest in the lungs (pulmonary edema). The work of breathing
increases as the airways are obstructed by the fluids, impeding the flow of air
into the lungs. The alveoli are unable to exchange gases effectively creating
severe shortness of breath in patients. As the condition worsens, this congestion
will eventually cause the right ventricle to fail. When this occurs, valuable blood
supply (oxygen and nutrients) to the body’s cells are seriously disrupted, and the
waste products of metabolism are no longer eliminated effectively causing these
toxins to accumulate and ultimately causing cell death.
CPAP (Continuous Positive Airway Pressure)
EMS Providers play a large role in the emergency management of the patients
suffering from Congestive Heart Failure.
CPAP is a form of Noninvasive Positive Pressure Ventilation (NPPV) which is
becoming increasingly popular in the field management of the patient suffering
from CHF. CPAP can save precious seconds when managing a patient with
Congestive Heart Failure, avoiding intubation and its associated field and longterm
concerns and side effects.
CPAP improves the ability of the alveoli to diffuse oxygen to the red blood cells,
by using pressure to drive gas into the alveoli and open up unused or collapsed
alveoli. CPAP increases the resistance of gas flow during exhalation providing
resistance to the exiting airflow of gas from the lungs.
CPAP can lessen the shortness of breath experienced by the patient by
improving the performance of the heart. Ventilation improves and airway
secretions are removed improving oxygenation and CO2 removal.
CPAP also helps by increasing intrathoracic pressure, causing an increase in
cardiac output. It helps to reduce the need for CHF patients to be intubated and
placed on a ventilator.
The patients must be able to breathe spontaneously to benefit from this patient
management protocol. The patient breathes through a pressurized circuit
against a set threshold resistor that keeps the airway pressure at a preset level,
normally monitored on an airway pressure gauge. The inspiratory and expiratory
pressures remain the same.
If the patient moves into respiratory arrest during CPAP treatment, artificial
ventilation will be required via a bag-valve-mask or automatic ventilator. Devices
like the CAREvent® ALS+CPAP offer both CPAP and ventilation in one space
saving design to treat patients moving from difficulty to not breathing.
Management of a patient suffering from Congestive Heart Failure in the field with
CPAP, increases the chance that the patient can avoid an ICU stay on a
ventilator and reducing the associated costs
Street Sense is published by O-Two Medical Technologies Inc., innovators in resuscitation since 1971
(mouth-to-mouth barriers, BVMs to a full line of automatic ventilators/resuscitators).
Contact O-Two at:
7575 Kimbel St.
Mississauga ON Canada L5S 1C8
Email: [email protected]
Phone: 1-800-387-3405
Fax: 905-677-2035​

Web : www.otwo.com

from MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Congestive Heart Failure
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This page has been designed by the Health Care Professionals of Marquette General Hospital to provide you with information about Congestive Heart Failure (CHF):[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How it happens [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What the warning signs are [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What you can do about it [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HOW IT HAPPENS[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The heart acts as a pump that pushes blood through the body. Certain conditions and diseases may weaken the heart’s pumping ability and can lead to CHF.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The weakened heart, still trying to pump efficiently, will eventually become enlarged. When this occurs, blood cannot circulate properly and several things can happen:[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Since the blood is not pumped efficiently, there may be some seepage of fluid out of the blood vessels and into the lungs which can cause you to feel short of breath. [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Since it is blood that carries oxygen and nutrients through the body, any decrease in the amount of blood being pumped may result in weakness, dizziness, and/or fatigue.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If the right side of the heart is affected, fluids and blood may accumulate in other parts of the body and cause swelling. This is called edema, and most often occurs in the feet and legs. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WARNING SIGNS[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Edema is a symptom of CHF. Swelling in the feet and legs may be caused by, varicose veins, standing for long periods of time, or other causes. This kind of swelling will be gone when you get up in the morning. In CHF, the swelling may go down when lying down or it may remain.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Other signs of edema and CHF that should be reported to your doctor are: [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]An increase in weight (5 pounds in a week or 2 to 3 pounds in a day) may indicate fluid retention. Another way to tell if fluid is increasing is to notice if you comfortable shoes begin to feel tight.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you can no longer do normal things such as housework, your job, washing, and other everyday tasks.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Increased coughing[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Troubled breathing when lying down that improves when you sit up in bed, or shortness of breath during your usual activities.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](This has very little to do with the heart needing to relax when laying flat, but happens because fluid in the lower extrmeties backs up into the lungs.DROWNING feeling)[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]f you find that you are urinating (passing your water) more often during the night.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If your pulse rate increases[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you have abdominal pain, nausea, loss of appetite, and/or vomiting for more than one day. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WHAT YOU CAN DO [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you have CHF, your doctor will provide you with a treatment plan to help you maintain your health. You can help by following a few simple guidelines:[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Avoid wearing tight garters and girdles[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do not cross your legs while sitting. When you do sit, try to put your feet up.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do not stand for long periods of time.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Avoid fatigue by resting between activities. Do not get tired.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Move slowly when getting up from bed or a chair to avoid feeling dizzy.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Weigh yourself every day using the same scale with the same amount of clothes on and at the same time of day-usually after you have urinated and before breakfast.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Stick to your drug schedule, even when you feel better. Inform your doctor of all medications you take, including over-the-counter medications. If you fell full all the time, even before you begin to eat, call your doctor. This may be caused by your medicine.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rest for one hour following meals before taking part in activities. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Additional health information is available through the MGH Health Information Center [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](906) 225-4950 or 1-800-562-9753, ext 4950.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Additional health information is also available through the MGH Health Information Center [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](906)225-4950 or 1-800-562-9753, ext.4950. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Back to Main Question Page [/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Questions - Contact Our Web Team [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Marquette General Health System [/FONT]​

PLEASE REMEMBER, BLOOD IS A FLUID... also, this is what I do for kicks and giggles when I am not peddling insurance and I have treated 100's of people with CHF, and their other organs are the least of their worries, THEY CAN'T BREATH AND FEEL LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO DIE SOON, that is the biggest issue.
[/FONT]

 

[retread]

While I will not argue every point you bring up, I will say a couple of things:
1) CHF results in FLUID (not blood, but blood products) in the lungs due to the circulatory system's inability to carry that fluid to the kidneys where it can be excreted. This is especially important for CHF patients with severe kidney disease. Diuretics (lasix, etc) are used to assist ridding the body of excess fluids. Sometimes this won't work for one reason or another. Laying flat puts less stress on the weak heart (a LEFT ventricle issue) that can't pump as well against gravity, so the fluid in the legs can be circulated to the kidney(s). This may be required in stage 3 and/or stage 4 CHF. Fluid buildup in the lungs may result in pneumonia, not to mention drowning. CPAP may or may not be indicated. (BTW: Pumping blood TO the lungs is NOT the same as having blood IN the lungs.)

PLEASE REMEMBER, BLOOD IS A FLUID... also, this is what I do for kicks and giggles when I am not peddling insurance and I have treated 100's of people with CHF, and their other organs are the least of their worries, THEY CAN'T BREATH AND FEEL LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO DIE SOON, that is the biggest issue.

I certainly did not mean to start a treatise on CHF, and will admit readily that blood is a fluid.

Perhaps I did not make my point clear enough, and that is that CHF does not necessarily result in BLOOD in the lungs. It may or may not.

Usually blood in the lungs results in blood coming out the nose or mouth and is very scary. However, it is much more common to have fluid in the lungs, which is essentially clear. As a matter of fact, when aspriated, it looks like water.

This is so much like drowning that YES the patient feels like they are going to die. If something isn't done soon, they will!

The usual reason for fluid buildup (edema) is the poor function of the kidneys, which can be exacerbated by CHF. As a matter of fact, my sister just got out of the hospital a couple of weeks ago with this very issue. She was in CHF stage 4 and is down to one poorly functioning kidney, so I know of what I speak.

I don't mean to detract from your good work of providing EMT service. Good for you! I just wanted to correct the notion that CPAP is only for CHF, or even that CPAP is only for sleep apnea. I have a granddaughter that was born prematurely and had to use a CPAP device until her lungs developed further.

CPAP is forced AIR into the lungs... in cases where additional O2 is needed such as the case with COPD, then O2 can be supplemented. The OP wanted to know if CPAP and O2 were considered one and the same. I think we smothered that question with TMI.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

PAP test is not a pregers test.

Perhaps you don't recognize my sense of humor. I sometimes use mixed metaphors, too.

 

[FEX Quotes]

Here's a unique idea. Why not get a clarification from underwriting for the specific carrier that you are considering.

On many of the FE carriers, use of oxygen is a knockout question. when I think of really unhealthy ppl, I think of the ones that carry oxygen with them everywhere they go. Does a person who only uses C-pap at night (not during the day) count among this knocked-out group?

I've done some googling on "c-pap". It doesn't seem to be an oxygen machine, rather a sort of filtering machine that uses "bedroom air" to keep the airway open when the person is sleeping. I'll call an underwriter tomorrow just to make sure.