No Commission on Sales?

[txagt39]

Hi I'm new to this forum...and rather new to the insurance business. This has been more helpful than any other places I've been to.

I'm currently working as agent staff for a State Farm Agent office. I work in sales and I get paid a base salary.

My question is... is it a common thing now that sales who have a base salary doesn't get paid commissions per sale? In our office we only get commission if we sell an X number of policies, if we are 1 or 2 short of that goal, we get nothing, zippo. Up to now none of the staff has met the expectation, so none of us has collected commission since Feb of last year...

My agent (employer) tells me that she is doing us a favor that they even offer paying commission because State Farm now doesn't pay agent commission if the agent doesn't meet their quota, which is up to the agent staff to meet. So if the agent gets no commission, neither does the staff?

Is that true? Sorry I'm very much a Noob and it is my first full time job... I have a feeling the agent just tells me whatever she wants.... please shed some light?

Thanks

Production requirements should be an expectation if you want gravy with them taters honey. If you are getting a base salary your sponsoring agent is paying you regardless of what you bring to the table, pretty darn generous if you ask me. He's not only paying your salary but unemployment taxes on that salary - and that's a pretty hefty check I can attest. If you want to earn commission based on the criteria the agent has established then do it or hike up the hill and do it yourself, you'll quickly see just how demanding it is, it isn't easy or cheap and managing employees who want more and more for doing less and less is really annoying. So do the job you got and do it well, you will be rewarded. If you don't meet the expectations set up for you then you have no one to complain to but the guy in the mirror. If you are not selling what is expected you likely are not even covering the expense of having you onboard so you might want to quieten down the chatter - or pick up the tempo. There are no free rides.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You are being lied to.

You know...whoever signs your paycheck can tell you whatever they want to - including "take a hike". If you don't like the rules of the game he/she offers, go elsewhere, don't sit and whine about it. Your agent has outrageous overhead and company induced expectations, sleepless nights worrying about meeting all the expectations, unreasonable clients, company demands, employees in general, and making a living. If you can't do it solo, shutup and dance with the one that brung you and do the best job you can. This whining I'm getting ripped off really irks me. Try signing the paychecks each week, that will change your outlook on your agents office and compensation practices, until you are signing the checks I suggest an attitude adjustment or a work address change.

 

[AgentProvocateur]

I have lots of experience working as staff at an exclusive agent agency.

You are an agent employee, not a State Farm employee, so you should not be calling State Farm about your concerns. However, your concerns are valid.

I need more information to know if what you are being paid is fair.

Are you spending all your time selling, or are you required to service the agent's book of business -- i.e., answering billing questions, replacing cars, etc?

Are the agency staff divided into sales people and customer service, or are all employees required to do customer service and are subject to the 25 policy requirement to keep their jobs?

The one employee that has the same base pay and the higher production requirement is not fair unless she/he is getting a better compensation package for the higher production requirement. Are you sure this person has the
same base pay?

You say almost everyone is having problems making their production requirement. Are you seeing a lot of employee turn over? How long have you been working there? How long have the other employees?

Given your skills, education, and local job market, how much could you earn at a salaried position elsewhere? Do you have employer paid benefits -- health insurance, retirement, disability?

You say you are new to insurance, and this is your 1st full time job. What type of training are you getting?

If you are learning a lot, and cannot get a better job offer, don't be greedy. Since you are new, if the training is good, don't worry about the pay now. But I would be surprised if you are getting good training.

I suspect your boss churns and burns staff to increase her sales and to lower her cost of paying someone to service her book of business.

The best thing you can do is look for a better employment situation, and stay where you are at until you are sure you have a better opportunity. If you can't find a better opportunity, maybe your current compensation is better than you think.

Also, you may feel you are selling all these policies making the agency owner rich. Are you really generating the sales by going out and getting them, or are the prospects calling the agency and you are simply answering the phone?

You won't get rich working for someone else, but you do have the security of a paycheck.

I would not consider going out on your own until you have a rock-solid marketing plan. If you love to market, enjoy the challenge of cold calling/walking, then going out on your own might be the best thing for you.

****
Hey, this is an old thread! I'm sure Fishnchips has moved on by now. Fishnchips, if you are still out there, how did thing work out?.

 

[xrac]

.....But here's the catch, the only person who is able to sell 30 policies a month, her quota is 40 policies to keep her job and 70 policies to get commission. That girl has a lot of referrals to help her out, but her base salary is the same as ours. We're all scared that once we are able to consistently sell 30 policies a month the expectation for us will increase, so we'll always play a game of chase.. if you know what I mean. (

I know that this is an old post but it sounds like the person who has a quota of 40 policies and the same pay is the one short changed.

 

[arnguy]

What does he want, his cake and eat it too?

 

[LadyYaYa]

I was a captive agent and have embarked on my own (after learning the business). I sell mostly medicare supplements and life insurance. If i sell 20 medicare supplement policies a month I will earn approximately $250-325 per sale (depending on what company i'm selling for, i represent several). When I first got started in the business, I would spend all day monday and tuesdays setting up appointments for wed - fri and would sell 3-4 apps a week. Now I'm enjoying my referrals and not working for a boss breathing down my neck. I guess you can say I'm "psychologically unemployable"...i can never go back to working for someone else.

 

[fishnchips]

Wow this came as a surprise! Didn't expect someone would dig this up again LOL

An update, I'm still at the same agency, I've worked my way up to manager position. However all the people that i've mentioned has quit, me an this other person are the only two left since I made this post. We had 9 people then, now we are down to 4. Since then we have went through another 6 people in the office.

I easily sell 30 apps now. However I am doing double the work than before. According to state Farm's, there should be one rep per 500 customers, our agency has approximately 6000 clients so I'll let you do the Math.

Production requirements should be an expectation if you want gravy with them taters honey. If you are getting a base salary your sponsoring agent is paying you regardless of what you bring to the table, pretty darn generous if you ask me. He's not only paying your salary but unemployment taxes on that salary - and that's a pretty hefty check I can attest. If you want to earn commission based on the criteria the agent has established then do it or hike up the hill and do it yourself, you'll quickly see just how demanding it is, it isn't easy or cheap and managing employees who want more and more for doing less and less is really annoying. So do the job you got and do it well, you will be rewarded. If you don't meet the expectations set up for you then you have no one to complain to but the guy in the mirror. If you are not selling what is expected you likely are not even covering the expense of having you onboard so you might want to quieten down the chatter - or pick up the tempo. There are no free rides.

It seems I have been semi-miscategorized as a "lazy" employee with an attitude who does nothing but complain. I would like to clarify that misunderstanding. At this agency due to it's size and age 95% of our job is service. The place is a mixture of call center and local bank branch and training camp. It's nothing like the cozy sales only jobs where you dedicate your time to making calls ONLY.

However we are hired with the title as being "Sales" we do not get the benefit of a large salary like the Service agents. This post is not to complain about my pay, it's merely to probe and ask the question whether or not I'm being paid fairly for what I do. Just to give some background everyone in my family are business owners, so I looked into the state farm agency opportunity as my choice of business to pursuit. So I know the position of writing the pay check. But I also believe in paying your employees fairly.

@AgentProvocateur:

I am very interested in knowing what you think. Since the superstar that sold more than 45 policies a month has moved on... I'll answer the questions that are relevant. On the upside i have been promoted to Manager, I make another $10K more, $35,000 now before tax and learned to negotiate to getting more holidays.

Are you spending all your time selling, or are you required to service the agent's book of business -- i.e., answering billing questions, replacing cars, etc?
Are the agency staff divided into sales people and customer service, or are all employees required to do customer service and are subject to the 25 policy requirement to keep their jobs?

We spend 95% of our time servicing existing book of business. Since I am the manager now I do a little more, I answer/fix billing issues, replace/adding cars, houses, process claims, lapsed payment/collection calling, inspections for new policies, follow up on changes, house keeping like vacuuming, booking appointments for insurance review, and training new employees etc... in my case, due to my background in computers... I'm also the IT I must say i haven't had one boring day (nor went home before 7:30pm either)

You say almost everyone is having problems making their production requirement. Are you seeing a lot of employee turn over? How long have you been working there? How long have the other employees?

Since my post we have lost 5 people (3 were senior with 2 - 3 yrs experience), 6 came and went, the average span for the employee is about 3 months. I think most of them are frightened off when our boss goes into screaming temper tantrum at the end of every month (I've learned to ignore her, she's like jerkyl and hyde). I've been in this agency the longest... 2 years! It was a very tough 2 years for me but I decided this is a learning experience, if I make it in this place I can make it anywhere. I also decided that this year is enough, so I'll no longer be at this office after October. whew!

Given your skills, education, and local job market, how much could you earn at a salaried position elsewhere? Do you have employer paid benefits -- health insurance, retirement, disability?

I've kept in touch with the ex-employees, they are saying for the licenses that I have and the years of experience the starting Salary is approximately $35,000 but here's the catch, they only do sales, no service! My agent doesn't provide any health insurance, disability or retirement plans...

You say you are new to insurance, and this is your 1st full time job. What type of training are you getting?
If you are learning a lot, and cannot get a better job offer, don't be greedy. Since you are new, if the training is good, don't worry about the pay now. But I would be surprised if you are getting good training.

Yes I've had businesses on the side, so this is my first time working under someone other than myself since graduation from college in 2007. I've done more learning than I have in the 4 years of college to be honest All training are provided by existing staff, when i started there was 3 senior staff team members who trained me, training was sporadic but I learn fast.

I suspect your boss churns and burns staff to increase her sales and to lower her cost of paying someone to service her book of business.

I have a hunch she's taking advantage of people too, we've met other agent staff at head office they don't seem nearly as stressed out as our office. What do you think of this...she would only hire those with no experience but licensed and starts them off at $25K.

The best thing you can do is look for a better employment situation, and stay where you are at until you are sure you have a better opportunity. If you can't find a better opportunity, maybe your current compensation is better than you think.

Also, you may feel you are selling all these policies making the agency owner rich. Are you really generating the sales by going out and getting them, or are the prospects calling the agency and you are simply answering the phone?
You won't get rich working for someone else, but you do have the security of a paycheck.

I would not consider going out on your own until you have a rock-solid marketing plan. If you love to market, enjoy the challenge of cold calling/walking, then going out on your own might be the best thing for you.

Thank you for your response to my post! I must say i miss the cold calling/walking days, at least I'm in control of what I want to do, I can set a goal, have a plan without being thrown into the Service wirlwind. In the end though I decided it's not all about the money, what's the point if you come home with half your sanity intact every day?

 

[fishnchips]

Wow this came as a surprise! Didn't expect someone would dig this up again LOL

An update, I'm still at the same agency, I've worked my way up to manager position. However all the people that i've mentioned has quit, me an this other person are the only two left since I made this post. We had 9 people then, now we are down to 4. Since then we have went through another 6 people in the office.

I easily sell 30 apps now. However I am doing double the work than before. According to state Farm's, there should be one rep per 500 customers, our agency has approximately 6000 clients so I'll let you do the Math.

Production requirements should be an expectation if you want gravy with them taters honey. If you are getting a base salary your sponsoring agent is paying you regardless of what you bring to the table, pretty darn generous if you ask me. He's not only paying your salary but unemployment taxes on that salary - and that's a pretty hefty check I can attest. If you want to earn commission based on the criteria the agent has established then do it or hike up the hill and do it yourself, you'll quickly see just how demanding it is, it isn't easy or cheap and managing employees who want more and more for doing less and less is really annoying. So do the job you got and do it well, you will be rewarded. If you don't meet the expectations set up for you then you have no one to complain to but the guy in the mirror. If you are not selling what is expected you likely are not even covering the expense of having you onboard so you might want to quieten down the chatter - or pick up the tempo. There are no free rides.

It seems I have been semi-miscategorized as a "lazy" employee with an attitude who does nothing but complain. I would like to clarify that misunderstanding. At this agency due to it's size and age 95% of our job is service. The place is a mixture of call center and local bank branch and training camp. It's nothing like the cozy sales only jobs where you dedicate your time to making calls ONLY.

However we are hired with the title as being "Sales" we do not get the benefit of a large salary like the Service agents. This post is not to complain about my pay, it's merely to probe and ask the question whether or not I'm being paid fairly for what I do. Just to give some background everyone in my family are business owners, so I looked into the state farm agency opportunity as my choice of business to pursuit. So I know the position of writing the pay check. But I also believe in paying your employees fairly.

@AgentProvocateur:

I am very interested in knowing what you think. Since the superstar that sold more than 45 policies a month has moved on... I'll answer the questions that are relevant. On the upside i have been promoted to Manager, I make another $10K more, $35,000 now before tax and learned to negotiate to getting more holidays.

Are you spending all your time selling, or are you required to service the agent's book of business -- i.e., answering billing questions, replacing cars, etc?
Are the agency staff divided into sales people and customer service, or are all employees required to do customer service and are subject to the 25 policy requirement to keep their jobs?

We spend 95% of our time servicing existing book of business. Since I am the manager now I do a little more, I answer/fix billing issues, replace/adding cars, houses, process claims, lapsed payment/collection calling, inspections for new policies, follow up on changes, house keeping like vacuuming, booking appointments for insurance review, and training new employees etc... in my case, due to my background in computers... I'm also the IT I must say i haven't had one boring day (nor went home before 7:30pm either)

You say almost everyone is having problems making their production requirement. Are you seeing a lot of employee turn over? How long have you been working there? How long have the other employees?

Since my post we have lost 5 people (3 were senior with 2 - 3 yrs experience), 6 came and went, the average span for the employee is about 3 months. I think most of them are frightened off when our boss goes into screaming temper tantrum at the end of every month (I've learned to ignore her, she's like jerkyl and hyde). I've been in this agency the longest... 2 years! It was a very tough 2 years for me but I decided this is a learning experience, if I make it in this place I can make it anywhere. I also decided that this year is enough, so I'll no longer be at this office after October. whew!

Given your skills, education, and local job market, how much could you earn at a salaried position elsewhere? Do you have employer paid benefits -- health insurance, retirement, disability?

I've kept in touch with the ex-employees, they are saying for the licenses that I have and the years of experience the starting Salary is approximately $35,000 but here's the catch, they only do sales, no service! My agent doesn't provide any health insurance, disability or retirement plans...

You say you are new to insurance, and this is your 1st full time job. What type of training are you getting?
If you are learning a lot, and cannot get a better job offer, don't be greedy. Since you are new, if the training is good, don't worry about the pay now. But I would be surprised if you are getting good training.

Yes I've had businesses on the side, so this is my first time working under someone other than myself since graduation from college in 2007. I've done more learning than I have in the 4 years of college to be honest All training are provided by existing staff, when i started there was 3 senior staff team members who trained me, training was sporadic but I learn fast.

I suspect your boss churns and burns staff to increase her sales and to lower her cost of paying someone to service her book of business.

I have a hunch she's taking advantage of people too, we've met other agent staff at head office they don't seem nearly as stressed out as our office. What do you think of this...she would only hire those with no experience but licensed and starts them off at $25K.

The best thing you can do is look for a better employment situation, and stay where you are at until you are sure you have a better opportunity. If you can't find a better opportunity, maybe your current compensation is better than you think.

Also, you may feel you are selling all these policies making the agency owner rich. Are you really generating the sales by going out and getting them, or are the prospects calling the agency and you are simply answering the phone?
You won't get rich working for someone else, but you do have the security of a paycheck.

I would not consider going out on your own until you have a rock-solid marketing plan. If you love to market, enjoy the challenge of cold calling/walking, then going out on your own might be the best thing for you.

Thank you for your response to my post! I must say i miss the cold calling/walking days, at least I'm in control of what I want to do, I can set a goal, have a plan without being thrown into the Service wirlwind. In the end though I decided it's not all about the money, what's the point if you come home with half your sanity intact every day?

I was a captive agent and have embarked on my own (after learning the business). I sell mostly medicare supplements and life insurance. If i sell 20 medicare supplement policies a month I will earn approximately $250-325 per sale (depending on what company i'm selling for, i represent several). When I first got started in the business, I would spend all day monday and tuesdays setting up appointments for wed - fri and would sell 3-4 apps a week. Now I'm enjoying my referrals and not working for a boss breathing down my neck. I guess you can say I'm "psychologically unemployable"...i can never go back to working for someone else.

LOL I think that's my problem! I like the way you phrased it. I hope to start up my own office eventually, learning what NOT to do at the moment. I went from business owner to working for someone else, so much harder

 

[AgentProvocateur]

Hi, Fishnchips!

I'm glad things worked out for you since your last post. When I realized how old your last post was, I was kicking myself for spending the time to respond, because I had a gut feeling you had probably moved on to another industry. I am happy to hear you ran the gauntlet and survived.

Okay, so it sounds like you put in at least 50 hours a week, probably did a lot of customer service including sales for which you did not get credit(as you referred to in your last post), sold 30 new household policies a month to make 27k base plus commissions. This sounds like a great deal for your boss, depending how much in commissions you were paid. Given future renewal commissions and bonuses you were earning for your boss, plus the savings for not having to pay a CSR, your boss made more money on your work than she was paying you. Instead of your pay being merely an expense, it was an investment. You were actually an earning asset.

This does not mean she was taking advantage of you. As another poster mentioned, figure out what you made on an hourly basis for the time you spent at the office, and if that is an acceptable rate of return for you for your time and effort, everybody wins. If you can't make more or the same money elsewhere, then where you are at is a good place to be.

Now, you are a manager with a very nice increase in base pay. Are you making more now than you were before when you consider your old base plus commissions? 35k for no benefits and long hours is certainly not a dream job to me, unless it is going to lead to more money for you down the line.

I think this has been a great 2 years for you -- even with the craziness of a screaming boss, customer service overload, and high employee turn over. Your boss hired you with no experience -- which was a red flag to me that she was a churn and burner as you pointed out -- you met your sales goals and learned the business (at least, State Farm-style). You have had the opportunity to train, manage other employees, provide customer service, and deal with difficult people -- mainly your boss, as you describe her.

I think your decision to leave in October is a good one. But I am not sure you can make more money at another State Farm agency, though I am sure you can get much better working conditions. In my experience, independent agencies(not the non-standard auto ones) pay better and are usually more professional.

As employees, we look to be well compensated. As you have seen from some of the other responses, the agency owner sees things differently.

Owning an exclusive agency is taking on a lot of risk and lots of headaches. You have all the challenges of running your own business, but you are often controlled by the company like an employee (read some of the threads about becoming an Allstate/State Farm/Farmers agent). Agency owners are trying to make a profit for themselves, and profits are always being squeezed. You don't make it running your own business if you are not watching your expenses and the bottom line.

Agency owners have no obligation to pay employees well. Owners will pay what little they need to get competent employees. I think there are much better bosses out there than one you have, but most agency owners want to avoid "over-paying" their employees.

I recently worked for an agency owner that has had great success finding employees that did an acceptable job for low wages, and these employees would work for years without raises -- even though the agency was quite successful. They hired me at what I considered an acceptable wage. However, when I figured out the "culture" regarding compensation, I knew I was going to need to move on to another opportunity in the near future.

Now, does my old employer "exploit" their workers? No, the workers are free to work elsewhere if they can find a better offer. If they can't get a better job, the employee is stuck. Capitalism can be brutal. It is best to be the capitalist, if you can handle it.

Congratulations on your success and I know you will move on to something better in the future.

Long post. Little sleep. Lots on my mind. Sorry for the epic-length post.

 

[AgentProvocateur]

Hey, FishnChips!

I know it's been a long time, but are you still out there?

I'm wondering how your career is going? Have you started your own agency yet?

 

[fishnchips]

Hi AgentProvocateur!

Sorry I really thought I had reply to you back then, maybe I dreamt it! Wow it has been awhile!

I agree with your previous post and I thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts. You're correct, there were a lot of red flags that she was a churn and burn type of boss, I lived a sheltered life and was too inexperienced and naive to see the writing on the walls. I don't regret staying there, And I was free to leave, but I choose to stay because I want to conqure this challenge and come up on top. I was being challenged for once in my life and I want to put myself to the test.

I did manage to leave on good terms with her, before I left she hired 2 new college grads to work full time (still throws tantrums), I trained one of them before leaving...Also heard office hours has been extended.

I have dropped my ideas of getting into opening a State Farm agency, based on a lot of post I've read of the National Association of State Farm Agents forum, the new contract is terrible and causes a lot of people to go bankrupt in year 3, unless the agent gets rid of all their staff. But that would mean she/he will not have anyone there to service the customers unless she does it herself. I think if I want to own a business, it's best I do it without me working more hours and harder than my employees after year 3 and getting paid the least! Not a good investment at all

Also State Farm has been losing a lot of customers here in the last 4 years due to their rate increasing, there may be another increase this fall.

I'm now working at a Sales Co-ordinator for a sports Television Station, what I learned at the insurance office helped a lot with this new career.

How about yourself? Do you own your own agency or work for one? You're so knowledgeable!