We all know IULs are a ripoff

[DHK]

IUL's? Have no idea of training. IUL's evolved as the market tanked to replace VUL's with the "no market losses" mantra BUT again no attention to fees or historical index returns.

IULs are a concept sale. Historical index returns are immaterial. Interest rates and mortality tables ARE part of it though.

The biggest issues I'm seeing right now is due to the new CSO tables which removed some of the more immediate flexibility available in IULs. Still good long-term (per the illusion - I mean illustration). If you want immediate cash values, I'd look at a whole life with PUA riders rather than an Option B IUL.

That, and these new "multipliers" which (I believe) ought to be criminal to use and are only used by people who sell by illustration - charging an asset-based fee for the chance of a higher return - completely negates the notion of "reap the upside of the market without the downside risk."

And in an effort for companies to be more competitive they are offering uncapped index segments with a spread (not to mention having a ton of other index segment options; it's insurance, it shouldn't be over-engineered). I believe that's good, but it's primarily to offset the decreasing caps.

When I first started paying attention to IUL, caps were at 14% for S&P 500 annual point-to-point. Today, they're about 9.5% or so. While that sucks for new sales... the concern is primarily on existing contracts and if they have these new index segments available for allocation.

 

[Allen Trent]

Guarantee Builder IUL3 is a universal life product with indexed features, issued on form series ICC11LS175, that provides a death benefit upon the death of the insured person and also offers the potential to earn tax-deferred interest based on the performance
of one or more stock market Indices. It has a no lapse guarantee period of 15 years subject to the payment of a minimum premium. Refer to the “Minimum Premium” section of this illustration for details.
In this policy, you can allocate premiums to an account that offers a fixed interest rate (the “Fixed Account”), and/or an account that offers an interest rate based on the performance of a combination of the following indices and one of the Index Crediting
Methods (Index Selection):

Protected Death Benefit: The Protected Death Benefit provision is automatically included in your policy at issue. There is no additional premium to have this
benefit as part of your policy, but there are charges associated with the benefit once it is elected.
If you elect the Protected Death Benefit, it guarantees that the policy will remain in effect and that the death benefit, less any policy debt at the insured’s death, will at least be equal to the Protected Death Benefit Amount you specify at the time that you exercise
this benefit. The minimum benefit amount is $25,000. The Protected Death Benefit does not guarantee that other riders that are attached to the policy will remain in effect.
The earliest that you may elect this benefit is when the policy has been in force for at least 15 policy years and the insured’s policy age is at least age 65. You may elect the benefit by sending us written notice on or after the date these conditions are met. The
portion of the policy’s Account Value that is required to maintain this benefit must be allocated to the Fixed Account. The Protected Death Benefit cannot be elected if the Overloan Protection Benefit is in effect. Other requirements may also apply.
Refer to the policy form for benefit availability conditions and other details.

Premium Guarantee Rider: When this rider is in effect, it provides an important no lapse protection guarantee that can ensure that your coverage will continue
even if the policy’s surrender value is not sufficient to cover the monthly deductions as defined in the policy.
The guarantee uses an alternate account value that is calculated in a similar manner as the policy account value, but uses different charges and interest rates. This alternate account value is simply a reference value that is used to determine whether the
guarantee is in effect. It is not used in determining the policy account value, and you cannot access its value for purposes of loans or withdrawals.
The performance of the alternate account value fund is sensitive to the prompt payment of premiums. Payments should be made on time and in a consistent manner to protect this guarantee.
Note that changes in your premium payment pattern or other policy changes such as loans, withdrawals and death benefit changes may affect the length of time that this guarantee can continue your policy in force. However, the Premium Guarantee Rider will not lapse solely due to loan or withdrawal activity, death benefit increases or decreases, death benefit option changes or a change in your underwriting class.
Once the Premium Guarantee Rider terminates, it cannot be reinstated. Refer to the Premium Guarantee Rider form for additional details regarding this benefit.

why are you giving contract language for a North American product when you specifically asked to see an illustration of an IUL with a no lapse guarantee after you stated no IUL no lapse product existed.

I gave you one & now you make a comment to confuse another person as if the one I gave you was only no lapse protected for 15 years. To support your case you send contract language for a product that wasn't even part of the conversation from an entirely different carrier.

I like to be right more than I like to make mistakes & be wrong, but you are getting more confusing the longer this goes on & the further you drift from your question, comment or point

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

Things can change on Whole Life also.
The sales loads on PUA can change....NY Life on new policies has a 12% load
Obviously dividends can change.
The three components to the div (interest rate, mortality and expense) can change.
The dividend formula can change.
Do you go over this with your clients?
Not knocking WL, it's all my office sells.
If you don't like IUL, don't sell it.
It is as simple as that.
If you would like non company related info on products, here are two very good websites:
www.ethicaledgeconsulting.com/ The ethical edge Dick Weber
www.lifeproductreview.com/author/bobby This is Bobby Samuelson.
Most of his stuff you have to pay for, but he has content on youtube.

 

[phoenixlord]

why are you giving contract language for a North American product when you specifically asked to see an illustration of an IUL with a no lapse guarantee after you stated no IUL no lapse product existed.

I gave you one & now you make a comment to confuse another person as if the one I gave you was only no lapse protected for 15 years. To support your case you send contract language for a product that wasn't even part of the conversation from an entirely different carrier.

I like to be right more than I like to make mistakes & be wrong, but you are getting more confusing the longer this goes on & the further you drift from your question, comment or point

I am sorry, was I responding to your post or your illustration? That agent asked me to explain what I meant and I was responding to him. You and DHK obviously have a lot to lose in IUL business if I am proven right and are aggressively defending your business. I am not interested in talking to you anymore. Anyway, I stumbled on this site last Friday and already a few days of my life has been wasted. Ethical agents have a problem with IULs and won't sell them. I can't stop every agent from selling IULs but let me tell one last time there is no "right design or client or situation" for this horrible product. Wish you all the best. Uphold the values of our industry.

 

[Allen Trent]

You and DHK obviously have a lot to lose in IUL business if I am proven right and are aggressively defending your business

Give me your address & I will write you a check for 10,000x the amount of IUL commissions I have earned in my career

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

What a cheapskate....I will double that!

 

[Markthebroker]

we are the cool kid club & won't invite you to the party

Goddamn it. I knew you guys were holding out on me. I have never ever been invited to the cool kid party, even after I hit 1,000 posts. Screw you guys

 

[Allen Trent]

Goddamn it. I knew you guys were holding out on me. I have never ever been invited to the cool kid party, even after I hit 1,000 posts. Screw you guys

yeah, just imagine all the hot chicks at our parties. Those in this forum are the insurance super geeks of the already lame insurance industry nerds. The OP acted like he was the outcast & we were the cool frat guys leading all the band members to slaughter at hazing. lol

 

[phoenixlord]

yeah, just imagine all the hot chicks at our parties. Those in this forum are the insurance super geeks of the already lame insurance industry nerds. The OP acted like he was the outcast & we were the cool frat guys leading all the band members to slaughter at hazing. lol

Congratulations Allen! All this hanging around this board finally paid off. You are here in the morning and you are here in the night. You are officially a cool kid after 40 years of dropping out of HS.

 

[Allen Trent]

Congratulations Allen! All this hanging around this board finally paid off. You are here in the morning and you are here in the night. You are officially a cool kid after 40 years of dropping out of HS.

HS was the best 6 yrs of my life.

Being semi retired in my late 40s permits me a lot of free time to give back to an industry that has done so much for myself, my children, their children & their children.

Better to spend 30 min here a day staying up on my craft than how some, not you of course, spend their time.

The oddest part about this entire thread is that I agree almost entirely with some of your premises, but I merely pointed out where you were a little inaccurate in your facts. And it actually sounds like you have & do sell the product you are ranting against & I don't sell nor have I ever?

Talk to you soon, maybe at the reunion. You had said you had no interest in me & were done, but here you are still late night messaging me, just like all those chicks drunk rotary dialing me after the cool kid parties in college