- 10,355
Once it actually gets in front of a jury, signatures dont mean much. Especially in the presence of shady sales practices and complicated financial transactions.
Pretty hard not to know how to explain a policy delivery form or 1035 exchange. Even for the worst agents out there.
But would someone really hire an attorney, go through all the hassle and expense to gain what exactly? In this case I cannot point to a actual loss because he got $500k more insurance.
it's unfortunate but I think the insured/owner bears much of the responsibility.
- 11,299
Per the OP, there was no explanation.
The OP claims they lost out on growth in the policy they should've had.
At this point, the OP needs to hire an insurance analyst, counselor, or consultant (depending on state) and then, if fraud or misrepresentation occurred, to go ahead and file a suit.
Oh, I wonder if the OP contacted MassMutual compliance first? That actually would be the first step before contacting the state DOI. If neither of those steps worked, then you hire the attorney.
The OP claims they lost out on growth in the policy they should've had.
At this point, the OP needs to hire an insurance analyst, counselor, or consultant (depending on state) and then, if fraud or misrepresentation occurred, to go ahead and file a suit.
Oh, I wonder if the OP contacted MassMutual compliance first? That actually would be the first step before contacting the state DOI. If neither of those steps worked, then you hire the attorney.
- Thread starter
- #34
Newyork99
New Member
Bless you folks ATM and DHK for posting the youtube video, which really summarizes my frustration.
This agent put me through so much headache with this transfer, developed a close friendship with our family, visiting our home frequently. Many times, I had taken him to my friend's houses and events in the hope of getting him more clients. I did not expect him to do such a low life thing as to force a policy on me for his gain at my expense. I estimate 40-45k loss due to the transfer.
As you know, the cash value build up in the first one or two years are very low to cover the sales and administrative expenses associated with the issuance of a new policy. What is the justification for allowing such young policy (6 years old) to do a 1035 exchange except replacing policies only to generate commissions?.
After one year of creating the MM policy, with the yearly premium of 22k plus the 63k generated from 1035 exchange, the cash value was 67k (4k increase) and 77k after two years (10k increase). Though the MM had a 450k higher death benefit, I am paying twice sales and administrative fees for the 600k death benefit, once through NYL and again through MM.
I had written to MM many times but each time the response has been the same, which is that I had signed the delivery of policy documents.
With NYL, the accumulation of the cash value from 2011 to 2016 has been in fact better than what the illustration shows.
The other problem is even in the event if MM refunds all monies, I doubt if NYL will reinstate the old policy.
This agent put me through so much headache with this transfer, developed a close friendship with our family, visiting our home frequently. Many times, I had taken him to my friend's houses and events in the hope of getting him more clients. I did not expect him to do such a low life thing as to force a policy on me for his gain at my expense. I estimate 40-45k loss due to the transfer.
As you know, the cash value build up in the first one or two years are very low to cover the sales and administrative expenses associated with the issuance of a new policy. What is the justification for allowing such young policy (6 years old) to do a 1035 exchange except replacing policies only to generate commissions?.
After one year of creating the MM policy, with the yearly premium of 22k plus the 63k generated from 1035 exchange, the cash value was 67k (4k increase) and 77k after two years (10k increase). Though the MM had a 450k higher death benefit, I am paying twice sales and administrative fees for the 600k death benefit, once through NYL and again through MM.
I had written to MM many times but each time the response has been the same, which is that I had signed the delivery of policy documents.
With NYL, the accumulation of the cash value from 2011 to 2016 has been in fact better than what the illustration shows.
The other problem is even in the event if MM refunds all monies, I doubt if NYL will reinstate the old policy.
- 11,299
Generally speaking:
- Better health rating (smoking to non-smoking; weight loss, etc.)
- Have a more cash accumulation focused policy and not lose the tax status of the current policy
- Different loan options from the other policy
- Potential higher dividend treatment with new company (I don't agree with this, but some agents believe that a higher declared dividend is a reason to 1035)
- Premium banding or Death Benefit banding purposes. (Think of it like getting a discount for buying in bulk and keeping your coverage with one policy.)
Then there's doing a 1035 to either a paid-up policy or an annuity (which doesn't apply to your case).
In short, does doing a 1035 exchange put you in a better position?
- If so, what is it?
- If not... don't do it.
Certainly sometimes a 1035 is in the best interest of a client. However, in this case... I doubt it.
Anytime I've moved a client - I've had VERY detailed conversations as to why and what it means to the client (pro's and con's). Never in a million years would I call a client and have them sign ppwk ok'ing the move. That crap (no matter what the broker said) is 100% a commission play. 'Get em switched before they realize why'. Makes me sick.
Ohio National had several top reps terminated for this practice, and to my knowledge nothing happened to them as ON just got rid of them and didn't pursue legal action (my guess to preserve reputation - but in the end it didn't matter). Commission churners are still out there, that's for sure.
The only thing I don't understand... why anyone would sign ppwk without completely knowing WHY, especially when increase in cost is involved. I'm sure a slick salesperson with a solid reputation with the client is what caused it - but I don't understand how the policy owner could not want to know what's up.
Anytime I've moved a client - I've had VERY detailed conversations as to why and what it means to the client (pro's and con's). Never in a million years would I call a client and have them sign ppwk ok'ing the move. That crap (no matter what the broker said) is 100% a commission play. 'Get em switched before they realize why'. Makes me sick.
Ohio National had several top reps terminated for this practice, and to my knowledge nothing happened to them as ON just got rid of them and didn't pursue legal action (my guess to preserve reputation - but in the end it didn't matter). Commission churners are still out there, that's for sure.
The only thing I don't understand... why anyone would sign ppwk without completely knowing WHY, especially when increase in cost is involved. I'm sure a slick salesperson with a solid reputation with the client is what caused it - but I don't understand how the policy owner could not want to know what's up.
It is possible NY Life will let you re-instate the policy especially if you file a complaint with the division of insurance. They are known to take back in cases like this but they will underwrite you both financially and health wise again but they may re-instate the policy. Since Massmutual has denied a refund just inform MassMutual that you are taking the matter to Division of Insurance. It would help to use a consultant like DHK has recommended. Good luck. If there are other complaints like this against the agent, it would help your case. Division of insurance complaints are complex and slow. If they find your claim credible, they may decide to look at this agents other sales. If that happens it would not surprise me if MassMutual agrees to a refund.
Also see if NY Life would agree to a 1035 exchange now but reinstate your policy at original age. It is worth to ask.
Also see if NY Life would agree to a 1035 exchange now but reinstate your policy at original age. It is worth to ask.
Similar threads
