Help Me Decide Between Guardian or MM, what Should I Be Looking Out For?

[David88k]

Just wanted to post an update on what I've done so far.

Out of 3MM offices in my area I have met with all of them at this point and now I am trying to determine which office is going to work the best for me.

Here is what I have so far.

Office 1
Their main office location is 1:30 hours away from me so I scheduled an appointment and drove down there. The manager I got to meet wasn't very impressive at all and seemed very surprised by how much I knew already and wasn't really prepared for the questions that I asked him. The location was really nice and I actually did see some people working the phones which is a plus. I asked him if I can visit a closer office that they have so he gave me an address to go too.

I drove down there the same day and met with the manager for a few minutes and I asked for an office tour and an appointment. I liked the office and there was a younger crowd who were again working the phones.

During the second appointment I was actually impressed by what he had to say as far as training does and how he's going to help me succeed. He gave me a few very direct answers which were very impressive. Overall I liked him as a person and his definitely someone worth working for, but for me there were some negatives that I didn't like.

Few years ago some changes took place in that office as far as the GA goes and I got the impression from digging around that things aren't all that great in that office. The system is there for you to succeed if you follow it, I really like that but in return you have to sacrifice a lot of your freedom and I just don't want to give up that much of it.

No Indexed products, can't do DBA (unless extremely successful) and all outside business has to go through the manager for approval.

They want to set up another meeting with the GA plus the manager but being the last office on my list at this point I don't see the need for another meeting.


Here is the deal with expenses:
3 Months to validate contract

Parking $50-$100 depending on where I decide to park, the office is located in the middle of the city so there are really no small streets where I can park and just walk.

E&O $140 a month once I validate the contract

Office Expenses $160 a month


Office 2

This is the top contender at this point. 30 Minutes away from my home and its in an ideal location. I have met with them 2 times so far and I have another meeting with the GA scheduled this week.

First time I met with the Broker Manager who recommended that I start out career and if it doesn't work out I can always switch back to broker. I was told by him that ALL EXPENSES are taken care of as long as I hit my numbers but at this point I don't know if that's the case or if his just misinformed.

Second time I met with a managing director and I really like what he had to say. He was very honest with me about the business and the answers that he gave were right on the dot. No hype, no kool-aid and I really like that about him but I for some reason I don't think he's going to be much help with prospecting. However; product knowledge, underwriting support and product design and join work he should have no problem helping me with. Another advantage to this office is that there are many managers to pick from and if I notice that things aren't working out with him I can always go to someone else.


Here is the deal with expenses:
Up to 4 Months to validate contract (they give you the option to extend for another 4 months by paying for your own E&O)

Parking $50-$100 depending on where I decide to park, might be able to park at a small street nearby for free

E&O $140 a month once I validate the contract

Office Expenses $190 a month

Here is where the confusion starts, guy 1 tells me that its free if I am producing and guy 2 says the opposite. But I will clarify this week once I meet with the GA.

They are also okay with letting their agents use their own DBA and I was told that if I do use my own DBA I can submit Indexed products (just don't brag about it in the office )


Office 3

This one is also a great office to be part of. I met with the GA last week and I kinda explained my situation to him and he was also very honest with me. He gave me his background and told me how he got started in the business, mentioned that its a hard business but with big potential.

He has two offices close to me, one is about 25 minutes away but I didn't really like the feel of the office and the second one is 45 minutes away. Drove down there over the weekend to get a look at the building and I was very impressed with the location. (parking might be free here)

He told me about another agent that he has who is from the same ethnic background as me so I rang him up and we spend about 30 minutes on the phone. He told me that the GA is a really nice guy to work with and that if I ever need help with anything I am more than welcome to go visit him in his office. He told me to contact him this week and to stop by so we can meet. He also said that if I decide to go with the other GA he will still help me out if I have any questions.

This GA also allows you to use a DBA, but indexed products he wasn't very happy about. This is what he said " Do I have agents going behind my back to write IUL, sure but I don't want to hear about it". I guess that was his way of saying do whatever you want to do but just don't talk about it.

ONE HUGE PLUS for his office is what he told me about marketing. He said if you have a marketing idea that's approved you get a 50% expense allowance. Basically if I want to do something and it makes sense he pays 50% of it. To me and to anyone I think that's a HUGE deal and its very hard to pass that up.

When I was setting an appointment with the GA of office 2 I told him about it and he said that he also offers something of that sort. He said that there are things that he fully funds and there are things that he partially funds and there are things that he doesn't fund at all. I plan on getting the details of what those things are that he funds.


Here is the deal with expenses:
Up to 3 Months to validate contract

Parking $90 depending on where I decide to park, might be able to park at a small street nearby for free

E&O $140 a month once I validate the contract

Office Expenses $130 a month




One thing that is still unclear to me is the expenses. So if you have your own office they give you a 20% bonus for it and if you're in house you don't get that bonus but yet your still paying for your office? Are they just hopping that new agents don't notice or know about it?

By the way the GA from office 3 said that the first 6 months after you validate your contract he takes care of your office expenses and the 6 months after that you only pay 50% of it. When I told that to GA number 2 he said that GA number 3 must have copied that from him hahah

At this point I feel like all three offices have what it takes to make you successful. Office 2 and 3 are the ideal choice based on the amount of freedom you get but now I am going to try and see who will get me the best deal. Do you guys think that If I ask them to waive the fees for me after a certain number of production they will? What can those numbers look like?

 

[KidsGotHeart]

Hey 88k, the numbers for Mass are pretty low. IIRC you have 3 months to hit 5 lives and 2500 FYC. Most new folks are selling term policies, to young folks, so it is more like 7-10 to lives. If you are selling enough to eat, then you will hit the numbers. The turnover rate is extremely high.

 

[DHK]

Back when I was at Mass, they waived most office-based fees if you issue enough monthly premium to be on-track to qualify for their NQDC program. Last I recall, it was $66k FYC per year, or $5,500 FYC during a given month. (I'm sure the figures are higher now.)

That may have been an 'office' based program, but I recall that as being part of the agreement.

 

[salestough212]

David I must say your spot on about your summary of GA agency.I lived it exactly and its interesting when they push for 6 apps as if nothing else matters.All the time the focus is "not selling" but a philosophy bring em in and write them quick before they think...Indy is my fit,I can subscribe to Living Balance sheet as a broker.

 

[jboussea]

All of this is standard for pretty much every major mutual carrier. And Mass does not pay the highest Dividend every single year, so that statement is misleading.




Again, that is a misleading statement in multiple ways.

First, Mass does not pay the highest Dividend every single year. Guardian has paid a higher Dividend than Mass multiple times in years past.


Second, a higher Dividend does not equal a higher CV or DB. Each company uses a different COI & Admin/Expense charge. That combined with the Dividend rate is what creates the CV & DB.

If you run a Mass 10pay vs. a Guardian 10pay on a Select Preferred 45 year old male who is paying $10k/y you get this in year 11:

Mass........... $111,217 CV - 1.63% RoR on CV - $263,056 DB

Guardian..... $116,045 CV - 2.28% RoR on CV - $272,413 DB

So Dividend Rate is not everything. Obviously you want a strong dividend, but there is more to consider than the Dividend alone.

Also, Guardian has more WL products to choose from than MM. So you have more flexibility to find a product that fits the clients needs the best.


Mass has a great WL product, I have sold it plenty over the years. But to claim that it is hands down the best would not be an accurate statement at all. No one single carrier will always be the best for every situation. As a captive agent you are forced to spin your product as the best all the time... which is just the nature of the job... but in reality sometimes Guardian fits the situation the best and sometimes Mass fits the best. As an indy agent i have the luxury of using what is best for the client no matter which carrier it is.

how does one get contracted with Guardian?