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I will follow John's lead and take on group health. There are several people who are more qualified to write this (Like Bob) and I ...


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Old 09-11-2006, 08:50 AM   #1
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I will follow John's lead and take on group health. There are several people who are more qualified to write this (Like Bob) and I hope they will add to it.

I think that the first address for anyone trying to sell small group health is to visit the state department of insurance website. They are all listed here http://www.naic.org/state_web_map.htm You can usually find a list of companies that operate HMO's in that state. Some states, like Wyoming, have just one or two. Other states may have ten or more. It takes very little for an insurance company to be licensed to operate in most states, but it takes a lot of compliance to run an HMO. That means that this company is probably committed to doing business in your state.

You can call a handful of the companies and ask if they write direct or through wholesalers. In my opinion, you are far better off if there are a couple of wholesalers that operate in your state. Usually, they just take overrides that you would not have access to anyway. I have found that they usually give much better training than life wholesalers do.

They are usually happy to give you an education about the state laws, products, and specific markets. The most important information to find out is:
Do they offer all of the companies in the area?
Do they give you the full commission?
Will they come on meetings with you?
Who owns your book of business?
What is the state law on medical underwriting?
How much is the allowable rate up?
Can you get a rate down for a healthy group?
Are renewals pooled or underwritten?
Can you BOR a case that they already hold?


There are several wholesalers that operate nationally. Benefitmall and Rogersbenefits are the biggest.
Many regions have local outfits that do an excellent job. I have found that states that do not have wholesalers are often not very profitable places to write small group health. In my opinion, it is much easier to crack the market in guaranteed issue states, because you don't need too much information to get fully mature rates. It sucks to get a census, beat their rates, take apps and then get rated up to wazoo because of a hip replacement.

Commissions from reputable companies range from 1% to at least 7% and renewals often pay the same. Many companies are switching to a per enrollee or per subscriber commission. With those deals, you can make out better on the young groups and worse on the older. Bonuses can give you a substantial boost for persistency and numbers. Commissions are almost always on an as earned basis. It is also important to note you will not be getting a check when the group first goes live. This is a slow business and you need to be able to pay your bills for a while before the checks start coming in.

Underwriting is what makes or breaks you in this business. New York bases all their rates on county; they don't even care about age. Arizona can rate you up to 400%. In underwritten states, some companies will give separate rates for each employee others will average it in, so the laws on underwriting are very important. Some factors that may go into the underwriting are:
Average age
% of employees that are female
SIC code
Zip code of the business
Zip code of each individual
Overall health status
Individual health status
Current and renewal premiums

Once you have a case on the books, there is huge opportunity to cross-sell. You have free access to every single employee and an excuse to call them at least twice a year. You may also know their age, family size, where they live, and health issues that may affect their need for other products. Whenever I run my employee enrollment meetings, or do a general presentation, I drop in some information about other products into the presentation. You may be pitching group health, but it is a great opportunity to present your other areas of knowledge.

If anyone needs help getting started in their local area, you can email me and I will try to point you in the right direction.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:46 AM   #2
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somarco on Small Group Health 101 for New Agents - Insurance Agent Forum
 
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You might also want to add Allied National to your national sources for small group. I have found them competitive and relatively easy to work with.

http://www.allied-brokerage.com/

If involved in larger cases, 100+ lives, you should consider using a TPA and setting up a self funded plan. There is a great deal of flexibility in using self funded over fully insured and usually at a lower cost.
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:41 PM   #3
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I agree, if the demographic is decent, you can even partially self-fund for groups of 40+. However, that is a whole different ballgame as far as a direction to take your career. I make more from my few big groups than I do from my many small groups, but it is a lot easier to get started with small. Additionally, there is a lot more cross-selling with small group, since there can be more individual interaction.
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Old 09-11-2006, 03:07 PM   #4
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Would small group be something an independent agent working out of their home could tackle if they really busted it out, or do you really need to work for a large agency? How would a newer agent break into the company group market?
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Old 09-11-2006, 03:52 PM   #5
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It can absolutely be done from home with little infrastructure. However, your checks will come in much more slowly than with individual. It takes longer to get groups on the books and then there are no advances. From a long-term perspective, it is a good way to make a living, especially with the cross-sell ability. However, you need a lot of patience and persistance. Undoubtadly, after one year, you will have made more money off of individual. After 5, you may make more with group, and you won't need the constant stream of new clients to maintain your earnings.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by john_petrowski
Would small group be something an independent agent working out of their home could tackle if they really busted it out, or do you really need to work for a large agency? How would a newer agent break into the company group market?
John,

I agree with melmunch on this one. You can definitely work the small group market from home. You can even get some minor back office help if you use someone like Benefit Mall.

Additionally, as melmunch stated, you may make more off the individual plans in the short term, but can make a nice income in the long run from the group cases.
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:46 AM   #7
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Benefitmall and Rogersbenefits

I'm in CA. would it be better to work with them. I am new to health sales.
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Old 09-21-2006, 06:51 AM   #8
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Assume that is what used to be Pat Rogers group. Didn't know they still existed. Got a contact for them or a site?
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:01 AM   #9
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http://www.rogersbenefit.com/ They have about 60 offices nationwide. They don't have as many carriers as benefitmall, and they don't really do individual. They have been very helpful to me in many varied markets. I find them much easier to get someone knowledgable on the phone than benefitmall. They are very clear about state laws and underwriting which is sometimes hard to find for some states.
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Old 09-21-2006, 06:24 PM   #10
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I have found BenefitMall to be a waste. The software almost never does what they claim it can do. Calls or emails to my rep are never answered.

WHEN I can get a quote it looks good. Just the other day I tried running a group HDHP on a 10 life group. Came back that KP was the only one available.

Wrong answer.

Called my rep & emailed. That was 2 days ago. No response.

I suppose they are OK for agents that dont know the market but I am just about over them.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:57 PM   #11
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I find that small groups stay on the books longer, are more apt to call you before a problem gets to be a big deal, and will give you referrals, both for other groups, as well as individual.

The small group market (I work with no company with more than 50 emp) is underserved, and dying for attention, and someone to EXPLAIN things to them. They are MOSTLY husband and wife with friend setup, and looking to get some pre-ex covered, willing to pay the increased premium, and glad there are more companies out there than the Evil Empire.

The main thing you need to get through to these small family-owned groups is the fact that there must be a DOL-4. There must be an employee-employer relationship. I learned that the hard way many years ago. If they have never heard of a DOL-4, or the term "Wage and Tax Report" then they are NOT a small group.

One thing I can't emphasize enough, especially in small group, is finding the Physician. Make sure you have the name, number and address of their physician. That can be a deal breaker as well. As a woman once told me, "I'd leave my husband before I'd leave my OB/GYN."

All you need to break into the small group market:

A list (all you need is a name, and a number to dial by...)
A phone (with a headset, so you can use your hands to take notes/talk)
A script (to keep you from rambling)
A Census Form (saved on C:drive to email to prospects)
A Calendar (preferrably on-line to set follow up calls and appointments)
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by somarco
I have found BenefitMall to be a waste. The software almost never does what they claim it can do. Calls or emails to my rep are never answered.

WHEN I can get a quote it looks good. Just the other day I tried running a group HDHP on a 10 life group. Came back that KP was the only one available.

Wrong answer.

Called my rep & emailed. That was 2 days ago. No response.

I suppose they are OK for agents that dont know the market but I am just about over them.
I'm with you Bob. I don't really have a problem with the rep, but with the quoting system. I want to see the rates for ALL the carriers available. Not just the ones they feel I should be recommending.

I pretty much run all my own small group quotes. Of course, if there are health conditions, we are still at the mercy of the carrier to put them together for us.
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:03 AM   #13
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Sman,

Do you think they are going to quote you on a company they don't represent? I have yet to find a company, FMO, that will spreadsheet a small group quote for me. If you know of one, I'd like to talk to them.

I spreadsheet for my own interest, but not to the client. I think it's too much info for them to ingest. I'm the recommender. It's my job to narrow it down to the top one or two.
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:47 AM   #14
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Benefitmall is really hit or miss with their offices. They have been invaluabl to me in Kentucky and in Michigan, but very unhelpful here in MD. For my local cases, I use a company called IMC. They spreadsheet the carriers that are competitive here, and they provide excellent support.

Have you ever tried World Insurance Association? Their home office is in GA.
http://wiaonline.com
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Old 09-22-2006, 08:17 PM   #15
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Never heard of them (WIA). They are right down the street from me. Have you used them, Sam?

What do they REALLY offer?
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:16 AM   #16
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I have only used them once, and it was an unusual case. I was doing a broker of record change on a group in Savannah and I needed to get an immediate appointment with someone. The insurance company directed me to them because they have a good relationship and could process it right away.

They processed it very quickly and I never looked back. However, I do not know if they offer nice support or if they will spreadsheet all the carriers. I worked with someone named Michael Jordan (Really!) but his upline is Michelle Sutter at 678-990-3673. It is probably worth a shot to call.
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Old 03-14-2008, 06:25 PM   #17
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Good answer!
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:12 PM   #18
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Thanks for the link Samarco about Allied Brokerage, it looks like they have some good products to offer. If you want a contact at Roger Benefits here in Atlanta I work with Chris Kinely (not sure about the last name spelling) He does a great job for us. Principal has some smoking hot dental rates, are they did anyway.
MelMunch thanks for the WIA link. I believe the Michael Jordan you are referring to used to be with United Healthcare. I worked with him briefly there.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:31 PM   #19
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Here is some insight for you guys/gals...... small group has been relagated to the transactional process of "quotes" and "new agents" working them only..... because they are a pain in the butt to deal with on a "service basis".....

IF YOU WANT TO MAKE AN IMPACT in small group then you're going to have to come up with something unique that the other 29 newbie agents that are cutting their teeth on small group are NOT saying.

Look at the trends..... HSA/HRA's..... no copay plans and co-insurance.... we're heading back to our indemnity days (which you won't remember, because I'm sure you were born in some year like 1989 or something)... but a lot of the 15 plus year veterans will echo what I'm saying....we're heading back to the indemnity days......

YES... it's all about price.
NO..... it's not!

It's about solving your CLIENTS/PROSPECTS problems and they problem isn't that they can't AFFORD to buy health insurance for their employees....it's that they can't CONTINUE to buy it at the rate it going up....... show them how to get a handle on it through HRA or HSA plan designs..... you'll look like a hero and you'll have a client for live.

FACT: HRA/HSA adoption rates are 3 x's that of 401(k)'s...when they were first introduced.

It's coming......... I had lunch with a Managed Care Exec Dir today from a major hospital network and he said that all their physician groups are seeing more and more self-pay and that the bad debt from self-pay at the hospital went up over 2% from last year.... if you knew the hospital business, you'd see that a hugh (HUGH) dollar amount and number.

Good luck......
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:01 PM   #20
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I am not new to the field, 14 years experience. Over the years my business has been P & C with health as secondary focus. But, times are changing and health is becoming a bigger part of my business.

I have been semi- active in the small group business (less than 15 EE's) for 7 years.

After reading this thread my question is what do Roger's, Benefit mall really offer? I am assuming it is something since many of the more experienced producers use them.

As far as quotes, I have never done a group quote. I scan the census and email to the company reps, they do the quote and email back. I pick the best 3 and go present.

So, once again what do these groups bring to the table?

Thanks

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