Anybody Ever Know Some One Who....

[goillini52]

Ah, I see......I believe you misunderstood what I was trying to say in the second part. Simply, that I wasn't looking for ethical comments, but comments more along the lines of "I knew a guy who did this and got sued...."

As I said in my second post, I have no experience with this issue and don't know anyone who has. My mistake for not being more clear.

____________________________________________________________

And to my point, The analogy is sound.

Eavesdropping is to reading a post and not commenting.

as

Interjecting into a conversation is to commenting in a thread..........just saying

It appears I read that wrong. I thought you said you knew a guy that this happened to. I was wrong and I apologize. Can we start over.

I think you'd be looking for problems if you replaced very many of them. Some companies might send you a cease and desist order. Just be sure to read your contract.

Again, sorry for jumping the gun and welcome to the Forum.

 

[VolAgent]

I read it the same way initially. That you knew someone it had personally happened to and then were asking what would happen.

 

[theguy]

It appears I read that wrong. I thought you said you knew a guy that this happened to. I was wrong and I apologize. Can we start over.

I think you'd be looking for problems if you replaced very many of them. Some companies might send you a cease and desist order. Just be sure to read your contract.

Again, sorry for jumping the gun and welcome to the Forum.

10-4 good buddy


And to Gooner's point. I absolutely wanted validation, I'm in total agreement with that statement. I don't think I stated otherwise. I would like to know if there are other agents who have faced this same dilemma in the past, and what you chose to do.....

 

[VolAgent]

10-4 good buddy


And to Gooner's point. I absolutely wanted validation, I'm in total agreement with that statement. I don't think I stated otherwise. I would like to know if there are other agents who have faced this same dilemma in the past, and what you chose to do.....

If you are smart, you will walk away and forget you ever thought of it.

The downside vastly outweighs the upside on this.

 

[WinoBlues]

If they were truly orphans and its not taking money off of anyone's table then I believe the eithcal question is a moot point.

I believe I found a thread that addresses this. "non-sillicitation vs. Non-compete"

You may want to look up the definitions of ethical and moot.

I do not know of any agent that has worked as many orphans or that works them so well as I. I know who they belong to. To keep getting them you have to be a stand up guy. If you leave the company that are their's not mine. That said pretty much what Cindy said.

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10-4 good buddy


And to Gooner's point. I absolutely wanted validation, I'm in total agreement with that statement. I don't think I stated otherwise. I would like to know if there are other agents who have faced this same dilemma in the past, and what you chose to do.....

Yes I have. And I finally shred them. Hurt really because the company sucked.

 

[sman]

10-4 good buddy


And to Gooner's point. I absolutely wanted validation, I'm in total agreement with that statement. I don't think I stated otherwise. I would like to know if there are other agents who have faced this same dilemma in the past, and what you chose to do.....

I haven't had it happen to me, but know a couple of agents who did and they were involved in litigation.

And whether you signed a non-compete or not, it's unethical to take orphan clients without the company's approval and try and move them to another company. You may not think it is, but it is. It would be considered theft of company property. And I'm willing to bet the company has deeper pockets than you to tie you up in court for a while.

And the more I think about it, I feel that's even worse than taking your own clients. At least with your own clients you'd have a fighting chance in court if the client testified that they wanted to do business with you since you had a prior relationship. But with an orphan client you had no relationship.

Imagine yourself a P&C broker with three producers who work for you. Now imagine they took the entire client list with them when they left working for you. If they were to contact all of those clients and attempt to get them to leave you to go with them, how would you feel about that? How is the scenario you describe any different? Because they are considered "orphan" policy holders? I'm sure that would go over well with a judge.

 

[Glen Shelton]

total hypothetical. lets say an agent signs onto being a "captive/career" agent with an insurance carrier. After sometime, agent produces reasonably and moderately for said company and gains access to an orphan database. Agents leaves said company. What would be the LEGAL ramifications of said agent contacting orphans of the company with full disclosure that said agent no longer represents said company. And making sales calls saying something to the effect of "I would like to do an insurance review you(client), since you no longer have an agent of record with said insurance company." I have been a fly on the wall on these forums for some time now, never really felt the need to post anything since most everything has been covered. I really respect a lot of the advice that has been given by many of you. However, I am not looking for eithcal or moral opions/judgement. (eventhough I'm sure I'll get it anyway) Strictly, I knew a guy who did that and he got sued to the gills, or something of the like. Do you think one agent is going to be able to make enough waves to warrant any legal action period?

I have a fellow agent who inherited a list of Orphan Annuity clients from over 10+ years ago. He claims the company who gave him the orphan list said "you must do what's best for the client" insinuating even of that means rolling the money to a different company.

Either he is full of BS or maybe the orphan list is so old they don't care? He mentioned none of these annuities are currently being contributed to if that changes anything.

 

[DHK]

Re: pilfering orphans from ex employer

total hypothetical.

lets say an agent signs onto being a "captive/career" agent with an insurance carrier. After sometime, agent produces reasonably and moderately for said company and gains access to an orphan database.

Agents leaves said company. What would be the LEGAL ramifications of said agent contacting orphans of the company with full disclosure that said agent no longer represents said company. And making sales calls saying something to the effect of "I would like to do an insurance review you(client), since you no longer have an agent of record with said insurance company."


I have been a fly on the wall on these forums for some time now, never really felt the need to post anything since most everything has been covered. I really respect a lot of the advice that has been given by many of you. However, I am not looking for eithcal or moral opions/judgement. (eventhough I'm sure I'll get it anyway)

Strictly, I knew a guy who did that and he got sued to the gills, or something of the like.

Do you think one agent is going to be able to make enough waves to warrant any legal action period?

1. Theft of said company property.

2. Violation of the DNC because YOU do not have permission, nor an existing business relationship.

3. Misrepresentation of relationship. You lied about your relationship to the insured because you said that THEY did not have an AOR for their policy, but did not specify that you are no longer affiliated with that company.

4. If you had any securities licenses... your U-4/U-5 could be amended after the fact to show "terminated for cause" or some other BS.


You may not hear about this that much in the "insurance" side of the industry... but cease/desist orders are a standard practice when one leaves a broker/dealer.

So, other than legal, moral, and ethical issues with those whom you are supposed to represent... I guess it's okay.

 

[pcbinsurance]

You can be "The Guy" or end up being "The Guy". It's your call.

 

[theguy]

So.....certainly far more cons than pros. Clearly in violation of any type of contracting paperwork that would surely be signed by a captive/career agent.

I'll try not to let the $$ blind me. I have been and will be successful with or without it. Shredding them is gonna be tough though. I'll admit that, probably the right thing to do. I'll admit that also.

The ever elusive "quick and easy" buck......