.Would not be. By exclusive I mean you are the only one that gets it. They remove it from their database on=e it is sold. Sort of like the old fashioned DM leads where they sent you the actual lead that the prospect filled out. Not a list .. not a copy.. You were the only one that got it.
Ethics of Aged Leads
- Thread starter GreenSky
- Start date
- 8,707
rousemark said:
They already do that but when the person still says they only went to one website and are recieving calls from tons of agents the lead company then says we can't control how many sites he visits and then they will blame an affiliate if push comes to shove.
Not the afilliate's fault. The vendor is the one that hires the affiliate. If the affiliate does not comply with the criteria the lead co. Sets then they need to can the affiliate.
- 8,707
rousemark said:
The lead company does not care and won't care until the have a penalty for selling Bogus leads.
- 14,809
Maybe one could argue that every lead is a "product" and receiving a bogus lead isn't really any different than buying anything you can name that turns out to be bogus or not work.
What I never really understand is caps on bogus leads. If a vendor sells an agent 100 leads and 90 are bogus then 90 get credited. The vendor then bears the responsibly of taking it up with their affiliates.
- 8,707
Crabcake Johnny said:
The cap is proof the vendor knows they are selling junk.
- 5,056
FYI not all lead vendors charge back affiliates, my main auto lead vendor I sell auto leads to - doesn't charge me back for bad leads, sans str8 fraudulent leads.
This crap happens with all sorts of leads. It is no different than the F.E. mailer vendors who send your mail, send you a hard copy, and then still resell those same leads to others. There is a big national IMO that buys aged final expense leads, and they appear to be amazingly similar to the new ones being generated by their mail house.
- 14,809
None of this matters. We've had this discussion. So agents "win" and vendors have to offer real leads, no trickery, no re-selling, no nothing. Just pure real leads.
Industry would crash and there would be no leads. More likely, there would be no leads offered to individual agents unless they signed a contract committing to "$1,000 a week" for a minimum period of, say, 6 months.
Industry would crash and there would be no leads. More likely, there would be no leads offered to individual agents unless they signed a contract committing to "$1,000 a week" for a minimum period of, say, 6 months.
- 882
Interesting discussion....guess I'd get my waders on & wade in
Hometown Quotes has never sold our leads as aged, but it is impossible to know if the affiliates abide by our rules or not. In the "good old days" we generated most of our own leads & I can with 100% certainty tell you we did not sell the data we generated to aged leads vendors then nor do we do it today...we never have. Today, since last Nov/Dec, we are back into generating a vast majority of our leads ourselves again.
Like I've posted before, we took a huge financial hit to change the direction of my company from the way the industry was going & it is paying off, finally, thankfully.
On our own generated leads, where we absolutely know we don't "play games," do incentivized leads, or tricks to get the consumer to fill our our forms, we still get some bad leads.
Couple examples from this week: Consumer filled out our form in English, but you call the phone & the voice mail is in Spanish. We get bad?/transposed phone numbers, disconnected phone numbers. Even the SAME consumer filling out an auto form on one of our sites & 15 minutes later we get the SAME consumer applying for insurance on another of our sites. [yes, we have more than one site..] & the biggest insult to me: Consumer tells the agent they don't know how he got their info! Yet I can go to the lead & prove the IP address it came from, date/time stamp & the consumer did indeed fill out the form!
So, can you get "bad" leads using our GQ program? Yes, but we employ a lot of technology & man hours to continually improve them. We know we can get better & my goal is to be completely transparent with you & our agents [as long as it doesn't involve helping my competitors at the same time]. Since we rolled out GQ auto last June, things have continually improved each month. Some of you came on as early adopters last June, left us and are now back. Thank you.
We are in the process of changing our rules for bogus leads to keep up with what is happening in the industry. & Yes, if we get bad stuff from an affiliate we charge it back to them. It is the best way I know to get the affiliate to change their behavior or else we don't do business with them. Bad leads hurt my agents and thus hurt my company.
I can think of nothing good that comes from me selling bad leads to my agents.
Last comment on Aged Leads: The consumer did not sign up for this bad experience. The agent that bought the lead new owns the data. The agent that bought the lead & sells the consumer a policy needs Retention to make the economics of buying internet data make sense. ANY company selling data "aged" or re-offering the consumer the opportunity to shop again 6 months later is stealing from the agent who bought the lead new in the first place.
One exception I think I'd say is okay. If the lead that one generates is sold to No one [this does happen] then making them an offer to try again at a later date or perhaps selling it aged is okay as it doesn't hurt the agent. To me, ultimately it is about my agents.
I've had aged lead vendors say: "Since you say you'll sell a lead up to 3 times & you only sell it once. Selling it to me is no different than selling to another agent." BS is what I say on this argument. Why? Because I don't know the integrity of the Aged vendor & why hurt my agent that paid $15+ for a lead for a few pennies more? + the consumer experience is not good.
Okay Rick, that's my 2 cents. That & a buck might get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds!
Hometown Quotes has never sold our leads as aged, but it is impossible to know if the affiliates abide by our rules or not. In the "good old days" we generated most of our own leads & I can with 100% certainty tell you we did not sell the data we generated to aged leads vendors then nor do we do it today...we never have. Today, since last Nov/Dec, we are back into generating a vast majority of our leads ourselves again.
Like I've posted before, we took a huge financial hit to change the direction of my company from the way the industry was going & it is paying off, finally, thankfully.
On our own generated leads, where we absolutely know we don't "play games," do incentivized leads, or tricks to get the consumer to fill our our forms, we still get some bad leads.
Couple examples from this week: Consumer filled out our form in English, but you call the phone & the voice mail is in Spanish. We get bad?/transposed phone numbers, disconnected phone numbers. Even the SAME consumer filling out an auto form on one of our sites & 15 minutes later we get the SAME consumer applying for insurance on another of our sites. [yes, we have more than one site..] & the biggest insult to me: Consumer tells the agent they don't know how he got their info! Yet I can go to the lead & prove the IP address it came from, date/time stamp & the consumer did indeed fill out the form!
So, can you get "bad" leads using our GQ program? Yes, but we employ a lot of technology & man hours to continually improve them. We know we can get better & my goal is to be completely transparent with you & our agents [as long as it doesn't involve helping my competitors at the same time]. Since we rolled out GQ auto last June, things have continually improved each month. Some of you came on as early adopters last June, left us and are now back. Thank you.
We are in the process of changing our rules for bogus leads to keep up with what is happening in the industry. & Yes, if we get bad stuff from an affiliate we charge it back to them. It is the best way I know to get the affiliate to change their behavior or else we don't do business with them. Bad leads hurt my agents and thus hurt my company.
I can think of nothing good that comes from me selling bad leads to my agents.
Last comment on Aged Leads: The consumer did not sign up for this bad experience. The agent that bought the lead new owns the data. The agent that bought the lead & sells the consumer a policy needs Retention to make the economics of buying internet data make sense. ANY company selling data "aged" or re-offering the consumer the opportunity to shop again 6 months later is stealing from the agent who bought the lead new in the first place.
One exception I think I'd say is okay. If the lead that one generates is sold to No one [this does happen] then making them an offer to try again at a later date or perhaps selling it aged is okay as it doesn't hurt the agent. To me, ultimately it is about my agents.
I've had aged lead vendors say: "Since you say you'll sell a lead up to 3 times & you only sell it once. Selling it to me is no different than selling to another agent." BS is what I say on this argument. Why? Because I don't know the integrity of the Aged vendor & why hurt my agent that paid $15+ for a lead for a few pennies more? + the consumer experience is not good.
Okay Rick, that's my 2 cents. That & a buck might get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds!
