Ethics of Aged Leads

[GreenSky]

I don't blame agents who buy aged leads. I've bought them in the past.

The point I am making is that the entire aged leads "system" screws everyone from agent to consumer.

The consumer doesn't sign up for a year's worth of calls, the original agent(s) are told these leads are either exclusive or limited on who receives them, and ultimately if the lead is sold, the selling agent's clients are constantly offered a new quote.

Most lead vendors I've worked with have been dishonest (HTQ being a VERY notable exception). Once the agent(s) have purchased the leads, how dare the vendor sell them again? The lead company no longer owns the lead and is stealing from the agent.

Very shady business.

Rick

 

[bill3173]

Most lead vendors I've worked with have been dishonest (HTQ being a VERY notable exception).

That is pure horseshit. HTQs sells aged leads as realtime all day long. I've kept records names, times dates called, etc.

In my expert opinion, they make insureme look like the embodiment of virtue in a lead vendor.

 

[LGilmore]

I've tried aged leads twice for life. What I found was 40% of them were credited leads in the first place. Bad phones, bad emails. The vendor instead of dumping the verified bad leads, simply sold them again, to me.

I will never try this again. The two purchases were almost a year apart and had about the same percentage of bad leads within them. If I am purchasing dead end leads even at a few dollars, is there any hope for them to pan out? They were bad when they were put in there, they're bad when they were taken out. Never again.

 

[donamese]

All time and place I presume. I have dealt with some and they were great for a while then went to crap. The thing is many lead companies buy from the same source so while it might be exclusive to them...it doesn't mean another lead company didn't purchase and sell it as well. Example....Transunion sells a list to MailCompanyA and MailCompanyB. It is a unique list to each company but the same overall list.

 

[somarco]

The only exclusive lead is the one you generated (by whatever means). Even that isn't truly exclusive unless you just happened to be the first one they responded to and you called immediately.

Leads are short attention span, but you can win the game if you know the rules.

 

[Bob Klee]

That is pure horseshit. HTQs sells aged leads as realtime all day long. I've kept records names, times dates called, etc.

In my expert opinion, they make insureme look like the embodiment of virtue in a lead vendor.

You better prove it if you're going to say it Bill! Talks cheap. I said NONE of the leads we produce. I cannot swear by the affilates...& one of the big ones that sells aged is a member of this site & we used to buy from him. But NONE of the leads that HTQ has produced today or in the past have been sold Aged! If you receved aged leads as new from HometownQuotes I am 100% certain that we gave you Full credit for them to boot! From 2009 till late last year, most of my leads were affilate produced & I could not control what others did. That is why I changed the direction of the company after I bought my previous partner out.

So, not sure what time frame you are talking about my friend, but we've never sold our own produced leads to anyone aged. Nor have we sold any leads we bought from affilates or others as aged. That is why our GQ program is what it is. So, how long ago were you buying leads from us & what type of leads? Give me your real name by PM & I will be more than happy to share all the details of your account. Both bad & good. Like I said before, I am the most transparent insurance leads company period! No BS.

As another member said the other day regarding our Life leads: These are "Retro" leads in that the Quality is what he experienced back in 2007. Thank you.

 

[LGilmore]

I think I can vouch for Bob on this one. Last year or the year before Bob and I had this discussion on aged leads. He was getting my thoughts on the subject and what I would think "if" HTQ would do something like that. Told him I still work all the leads I pay for via drip and still write business that I may have first met 4-5 years ago via HTQ and it would tick me off if those leads got resold. Bob agreed, he felt the same way.

Bob is still an agent at heart. He knows what it is like, he knows how it works. He often calls me to simply bounce ideas off of me and get feedback. Lots of "Larry, what do you think about.."

As far as aged leads go, the conversation went something like this.. "would it bother you if we sold our old leads as aged? me: Yes, I'm still working them. Bob: yea, it would bother me too.

I want to say this was last year, but it may have been a year and a half ago.

 

[bill3173]

You better prove it if you're going to say it Bill! Talks cheap. I said NONE of the leads we produce. I cannot swear by the affilates...& one of the big ones that sells aged is a member of this site & we used to buy from him.

Oh, so it's the affiliates...those dirty rascals. But wait a minute...aren't you the one selling the leads to agents?

Selling aged leads to agents as real time puts them at risk for DNC violations. You can't call an aged lead over and over again, especially without the original date stamp on the lead.

Frankly, from reading this forum, it doesn't appear that many people have been affected by their calling practices or either ignorance is bliss. The fines in NC are typically $500 per call, whether or not contact is established. I've had to pull phone records on two separate occasions to successfully fight off dnc violations.

 

[Bob Klee]

Oh, so it's the affiliates...those dirty rascals. But wait a minute...aren't you the one selling the leads to agents?

Selling aged leads to agents as real time puts them at risk for DNC violations. You can't call an aged lead over and over again, especially without the original date stamp on the lead.

Frankly, from reading this forum, it doesn't appear that many people have been affected by their calling practices or either ignorance is bliss. The fines in NC are typically $500 per call, whether or not contact is established. I've had to pull phone records on two separate occasions to successfully fight off dnc violations.

Umm, did you read what I said? Did we not give you credit for bogus/aged leads you said you got? I am quite aware of DNS issues with aged leads. That is just one of the reasons I "hate" aged leads...

So again I ask: did Hometown Quotes not give you credit for any crappy/aged lead you received & if so, what is your problem? I know I'm doing everything I can to stamp out the crappy leads.

As I said before: What Benefit/good do I receive by selling you or anyone crappy leads? If I did then you leave & don't continue buying my product. How is that a good deal for me? I'll answer for you: it is NOT. It SUCKS that you had a bad experience. Again, I am doing everything in my power to fix bad leads so I create Raving Fans for my product, not unhappy agents! The business model of selling agents bad/poor leads sucks and cannot sustain over time.

FYI: If we buy bad/aged leads from affiliates it is not on purpose. Also, the agents typically are all over it if it happens to let us know & we immediately fix the issue by calling the affiliate and/or turning them off.

FYI: We do everything humanly possible that I know of to insure our agents get good leads. On all leads, including our PPC/SEO leads we daily make calls on the front end, talking to consumers about their experience in submitting their info online for a quote, their experience in dealing with the agents that they talk to, etc. I'm prettty sure we're the only company that does this. We do this for many reasons, more than just to sample leads from new affiliates.

I'll say it one more time. PM me with your contact info so I can look at your account & I'll report back here the facts. I'm truly sorry your experience was not what it should have been.

 

[Josh]

Frankly, from reading this forum, it doesn't appear that many people have been affected by their calling practices or either ignorance is bliss. The fines in NC are typically $500 per call, whether or not contact is established. I've had to pull phone records on two separate occasions to successfully fight off dnc violations.

There are a number of "fines" folks can get. Usually the $500 number is associated with a private individual filing a complaint, "right to private action", where they can actually take you to small claims court. Another provision of that same law is an affirmative defense that you made a good faith effort to be compliant. For example, if you bought leads from a vendor that told you they were real-time and had permission, you'd have to convince a judge and/or jury of that. The FTC fine is $16,000 per call on top of the right to private action of $500. Again though, per the law in question (although NC may have their own), an affirmative defense is acceptable IF you acted with reasonable care.


Bill, you really should back up your claims. You said you can prove it and Bob has asked you point blank for said proof. It's really easy to smack at a vendor on the internet, but it's more than reasonable for him to ask for you to provide the facts about what you are referring to.

Another point to consider is that affiliates are thrilled at the opportunity to trick vendors. Many affiliates are happy to ride the lines or completely ignore the rules to make a buck and it's a full-time job for the retail sellers like HTQ to keep them honest. There was a guy on here that completely ignored the TOS on his CJ account and sent links to his friends and families to get quotes. That's a relatively benign version. There are tons of services that will let you pay a fee to have folks sign up for your offer. Easy math, pay $100 for 100 signups and get $300 in commissions for selling the leads. Extremely dishonest, but super easy to do and it's very difficult for vendors to keep up with. Nature of the beast. If a company is providing you with refunds on 100% of bad leads in that type of environment, that seems more than fair.