Illegal Solicitation

[Jack Burns]

I thought this post was a pretty direct insult so I reported it. The powers that be don't agree (which is totally fine) so I'll address it.

It's poor form for you to come onto an internet forum and refer to me as an "alligator" in a derogatory fashion. In your ignorance you also presume I deal with internet leads, but I'm much more focused on direct marketing. In fact, I don't sell any internet leads. I use SEO to create my own leads for my business and have a few SEO clients, but I primarily sell cold marketing lists for telemarketing and direct mail. Your allegation was that I was biased because of my alleged vested interest, but I have none. In fact, it'd better suit my purposes if internet lead companies were illegal altogether because folks would be more likely to take advantage of my services.

In light of the above I think it would be appropriate for you to apologize for the attack and possibly even remove it. On that same night, I'd like to personally suggest that you focus more on the merits of your arguments in discussions than trying to use ad hominem attacks against people that disagree with you.

I am sorry if I offended you Josh. I don't recall calling you, personally, an alligator. Again, I am sorry.

As I have stated many times, the purpose of my post is to alert insurance agents of illegal solicitation. They are consumers too and should be made aware of the law and given a place to report a bad experience to.... just like a consumer of insurance has with an insurance company or agent.

If any agent or lead buyer is reading this please don't let this Josh's opinion deter you from investigating these matters on your own. You can easily call the DOI in the state you are selling insurance in and ask if it is legal to solicit insurance without a license or look it up online. Some agents probably already know the law about solicitation as you were tested for this question when you obtained your insurance license.

 

[tins]

If any agent or lead buyer is reading this please don't let this Josh's opinion deter you from investigating these matters on your own.

There is no need to investigate. Buying and selling leads is legal.

 

[Jack Burns]

Jack...

+ 1 on what Josh said.

"Terrified or upset"? Not me, but I am amused.
Last I checked, even under President Obama, we are still a free country so you are welcome to tilt at windmills all you like. [Read Don Quixote if that phrase doesn't mean anything to you]

I had a longer response but decided not to waste my time. Keep tilting my friend

I had a longer response too and shortened it.

I find it appalling that someone with the LUTCF designation is carrying on in the type of marketing that doesn't candidly lend itself to insurance agents or consumers of insurance. Furthermore, I also find it asymmetric that someone of your stature is not supportive in the type of ethical standard and regulation that I have outlined. A true professional that is passionate about the insurance business, or career minded in the actual business of insurance, would most likely be more encouraging. The term "Good Faith" comes to mind.

This is all about consumers and regulation Bob. Consumers of insurance and consumers of leads. Both want to pay with honest dollars for honest products. When a marketing company plays these two parties against each other, with no regulation, both of them lose. The only winner in online marketing of insurance seems to be a company like yours. Since you referenced politics, I would like to predict that the type of activity you engage in will not sit well with our democratic lawmakers. Hopefully, the opportunity for them to hear about it will come.

Thank you for referencing Don Quixote in your post! I would like to reference a name that may better fit the situation on hand. Frank Abagnale Jr.

 

[Josh]

I am sorry if I offended you Josh. I don't recall calling you, personally, an alligator. Again, I am sorry.

I quoted it. In response to what I wrote you said "the dialog between you aggregating alligators is great". That's a direct attack. I'm not offended by it, it would take a great deal more to challenge my credibility or reputation than an insult from someone that doesn't even understand the difference between a list broker and a lead aggregator, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a direct attack and in poor form. Thank you for apologizing.

You can easily call the DOI in the state you are selling insurance in and ask if it is legal to solicit insurance without a license or look it up online. Some agents probably already know the law about solicitation as you were tested for this question when you obtained your insurance license.

As Tins clearly pointed out, buying and selling leads is legal. You have yet to point to any legal code that makes this illegal. Considering how much you claim to have researched the subject, surely you could share that with us.

Let me run another thought by you: If it's so clearly illegal, considering how zealous many regulatory agencies can be, why do you think this would have been going on for decades without anyone taking action? (hint: It just might be legal)

 

[djs]

While I probably don't feel there is a need to stop internet leads, if this did happen, what change would you like to see?

I do think there is an ethical issue with the unfettered reselling of leads over and over again, with no regard to how long ago the lead was generated or how many times it was sold, but again, that probably is just unethical, not illegal.

Since lead companies tend not to solicit insurance, I don't see where there is a real problem. If you read the site, it usually says something to the affect of having agents compete for your business.

Dan

 

[tins]

I had a longer response too and shortened it.

Lol, are you just here messing with people?
I mean, you have to be, right?
I doubt anybody is really stupid enough to think buying and selling leads is illegal.


Who are you for real?

 

[pcbinsurance]

Jack Burns (born November 15, 1933) is an American comedian and voice actor.

Jack Burns - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Someone above said he was a comedian and they were right.

 

[Bob Klee]

I had a longer response too and shortened it.

I find it appalling that someone with the LUTCF designation is carrying on in the type of marketing that doesn't candidly lend itself to insurance agents or consumers of insurance. Furthermore, I also find it asymmetric that someone of your stature is not supportive in the type of ethical standard and regulation that I have outlined. A true professional that is passionate about the insurance business, or career minded in the actual business of insurance, would most likely be more encouraging. The term "Good Faith" comes to mind.

This is all about consumers and regulation Bob. Consumers of insurance and consumers of leads. Both want to pay with honest dollars for honest products. When a marketing company plays these two parties against each other, with no regulation, both of them lose. The only winner in online marketing of insurance seems to be a company like yours. Since you referenced politics, I would like to predict that the type of activity you engage in will not sit well with our Democratic lawmakers. Hopefully, the opportunity for them to hear about it will come.

Thank you for referencing Don Quixote in your post! I would like to reference a name that may better fit the situation on hand. Frank Abagnale Jr.

Thanks Jack.
Actually, I have a letter [packed away in my files still] from the TN Dept of Insurance saying that an unlicensed support staff may actually X-Date for leads. I actually sent a script into the state that I first used in CA and got a written response! I was pissed that Allstate was telling me it was against the law when my reading of the code said otherwise! I then presented it to Allstate [back in 2001] and they then shared with the other agents with my permission. So I would absolutely disagree with your interpretation.

Yes, I am very proud of earning my LUTCF & the fact I've taught classes & trained many agents with absolute integrity. I've even taught the LUTC ethics class.

Are there abuses in the "lead space" in general, not just in the insurance space? Absolutely, & I'm doing everything in my power to be an agent of change since I benefit from this industry. One abuse I don't like is aged lead brokers. The consumer never realized they signed up for the abuse when they originally gave someone their information online. I highly suspect that most terms on most websites don't allow this but until a consumer sues these folks, the practice will continue:( I flat guarantee you that any SEO/PPC leads that we generate do not get sold to these folks. But, I'm not saying agents should not use these sources. They are legal & evidently provide value to some agents that use them.

We live in a free country that allows us to disagree with respect and thus I respectively disagree with your opinion.

And yes, I love the story of Frank Abagnale Jr. I first listened to the man in a live broadcast with Dr. James Dobson on his radio show: Focus on the Family, before it ever became a book/movie! I guarantee you that my company has never conned a consumer or agent...Ever!

I still think you are tilting at windmills & you also must be a good guy. Would love to chat more if you'd like to call or email me.

 

[bill3173]

I've even taught the LUTC ethics class.

You've got to be kidding.

 

[rousemark]

I am sorry if I offended you Josh. I don't recall calling you, personally, an alligator. Again, I am sorry.

As I have stated many times, the purpose of my post is to alert insurance agents of illegal solicitation. They are consumers too and should be made aware of the law and given a place to report a bad experience to.... just like a consumer of insurance has with an insurance company or agent.

If any agent or lead buyer is reading this please don't let this Josh's opinion deter you from investigating these matters on your own. You can easily call the DOI in the state you are selling insurance in and ask if it is legal to solicit insurance without a license or look it up online. Some agents probably already know the law about solicitation as you were tested for this question when you obtained your insurance license.

What a bunch of arrogant bull to imply that while you claim to have researched the law, we haven't. . I would say most agents know the laws concerning solicitation in the states when they are licensed. I can hire kids to hand out flyers and put door knob hangers on every door in town without either the kids or myself violating any laws. That is essentially what the lead generating companies do. They simply are putting out an internet flyer requesting people to respond. If they actually gave quotes, they would be in violation in some jurisdictions but not all. If they took the app without a license that would be a violation.

You started with the premise that the kids were offering quotes and then tried to apply that premise to what Bob, Josh and others do. It is an apples and oranges comparison and if you have done all the investigation and have as thorough an understanding of the law as you claim, then you should know you have used a bait and switch proposition.