Important Information Regarding Guaranteed Issue Whole Life (GIWL)

[Allen Trent]

You have some examples of those great fu rates?

Captive, single state carrier that only the mult-line agents sell. Solid rates, I am sure there are some better, but A rated carrier & gets discount toward home insurance, etc. Ages 0-85 $25k minimum face, no max face amount

but here would be some samples $25k Standard non-tobacco. higher face & preferred & super-preferred rates bring down premiums additionally. Optional rider to add PUAR values makes the growth & cash value extremely solid as the PUAR has little to no load charge & decent dividend rates

Male Female
35 37 33
45 48 44
55 65 57
65 98 88
75 156 141

quality product, especially in multi-line space. most of what our agents sell our juvenile or existing term policy conversions to it along with some age 35-85 policies being underwritten. bulk of our agents 12,000 policies per year are term (75%). Juvenile WL likely another 7-10%, term conversions to WL 7-10%, SPWL of $15M of premium a year, but only 2-3% of the total policy count, leaving only 3-8% of total policy count of fully underwritten premium paying WL age 20-85. Final Expense agents do a much better job at insuring the senior market in my opinion, even if some of it is not as good of products that the client may have gotten with fully underwritten

 

[Newby]

Captive, single state carrier that only the mult-line agents sell. Solid rates, I am sure there are some better, but A rated carrier & gets discount toward home insurance, etc. Ages 0-85 $25k minimum face, no max face amount

but here would be some samples $25k Standard non-tobacco. higher face & preferred & super-preferred rates bring down premiums additionally. Optional rider to add PUAR values makes the growth & cash value extremely solid as the PUAR has little to no load charge & decent dividend rates

Male Female
35 37 33
45 48 44
55 65 57
65 98 88
75 156 141

quality product, especially in multi-line space. most of what our agents sell our juvenile or existing term policy conversions to it along with some age 35-85 policies being underwritten. bulk of our agents 12,000 policies per year are term (75%). Juvenile WL likely another 7-10%, term conversions to WL 7-10%, SPWL of $15M of premium a year, but only 2-3% of the total policy count, leaving only 3-8% of total policy count of fully underwritten premium paying WL age 20-85. Final Expense agents do a much better job at insuring the senior market in my opinion, even if some of it is not as good of products that the client may have gotten with fully underwritten

You are a bit higher than the Fully underwritten products that FE agents sell are at. Which is not terrible. But nothing like what you are describing.

75 year old Female for $25,000 fully underwritten you are charging $141 where with instant decision FE she would be at $156.59 for the same $25,000 but no future dividens.

But if the FE agent sells her the $25,000 fully underwritten that pays dividends (many will if they sell a $25,000 policy) she would only pay $122.71 (KSKJ participating with dividends) or she could take the fully underwritten with no dividends for $115.52 (KSKJ participating with no dividends)

How does the discount on the other insurance products work if they buy your life insurance? Because I have had about a dozen State Farm agents choke on those words when they throw them out trying to save an over priced life insurance policy. There is no additional discount on any insurance products based on the customer buying life insurance with any company I have ever run against. They claim there is. But when you press them for exact details it always turns out to by nonsense.

 

[DonP]

Vantas in 2015 and now son .That’s bs . Son raised there rates 15% plus 1 yr ago . I just ran a bunch of rates . They were in ball Park with Gerber . What happened is they got hammered in ages 0-40 and they got hammered on their previous cheap rates . Even Great western dropped there Gi max rate from $40 k to $25 k . I bet I’ve had 8-10 great western Gi claims since 2015 and a few $40 k . I threw all my garbage at them . I throw semi sick people at gtl . People very sick great western . It’s all throw away business for me .

 

[Allen Trent]

You are a bit higher than the Fully underwritten products that FE agents sell are at. Which is not terrible. But nothing like what you are describing.

75 year old Female for $25,000 fully underwritten you are charging $141 where with instant decision FE she would be at $156.59 for the same $25,000 but no future dividens.

But if the FE agent sells her the $25,000 fully underwritten that pays dividends (many will if they sell a $25,000 policy) she would only pay $122.71 (KSKJ participating with dividends) or she could take the fully underwritten with no dividends for $115.52 (KSKJ participating with no dividends)

How does the discount on the other insurance products work if they buy your life insurance? Because I have had about a dozen State Farm agents choke on those words when they throw them out trying to save an over priced life insurance policy. There is no additional discount on any insurance products based on the customer buying life insurance with any company I have ever run against. They claim there is. But when you press them for exact details it always turns out to by nonsense.

definitely understand. what I was talking about was the subsidiary companies final expense offerings pricing, not best available in the overall marketplace.

The discount on the home & auto is indeed minimal at around 1-3%, so on a $3,000 per year auto/home client it is only saving likely $50-$70 per year.

Keep in mind, like I mentioned, less than 1,000 policies per year of fully underwritten premium paying WL policies are being sold by 400+ agents & existing insured households of 300,000 households with 650,000 active policies. the bulk of the sales are term and in the 25-50 age range. most of the premium paying WL that is not juvenile are term conversions to the premium paying WL where the clients have become uninsurable. the term conversion lets the client convert to a portion of WL & bring along the balance of the term in the form of 10/20/30 year term even though they are uninsurable. IE: $250k term in say year 17, could convert to $50k WL & bring along the remaining term as $200,000 30 year term at the same risk class they originally got the term for.

 

[titeye]

....Does anyone run the numbers and do the history before making the investment???

Why do people get higher an education? Seems like for many its a major waste of time and effort.

Interesting question you ask, considering insurance companies supposedly employ the best actuaries they can obtain.

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Why do people get higher an education? Seems like for many its a major waste of time and effort.

The connections you meet can be worth their weight in gold. The education is important but most of my profitability/productivity from college has come from the people that I met/know.

Interesting question you ask, considering insurance companies supposedly employ the best actuaries they can obtain.

"the best they can obtain"...

It's the same reason the best analysts don't work for AM Best. Do you want to make 200k with them or go make 2 million at Goldman doing basically the same thing?

 

[Life Hawk]

"the best they can obtain"...

But don't you think someone would have come along and said, "Hey, your GI is way too low compared to the average? And the market your going to get isn't the one you want."

 

[titeye]

But don't you think someone would have come along and said, "Hey, your GI is way too low compared to the average? And the market your going to get isn't the one you want."

I was agreeing with you from the start. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody, who currently or once worked there, is now saying, "See, I told you so!"

 

[jdeasy]

But don't you think someone would have come along and said, "Hey, your GI is way too low compared to the average? And the market your going to get isn't the one you want."

You have been in this business long enough to know that companies will not listen to reason once they have made their plans. They all think they are the ones that are going to crack the code.

I can't even count how many times I've seen companies pursue a bad idea even after being told it was a bad idea.

Several years ago on a company trip when I was with another IMO Travis and I had lunch with our marketer because he wanted to share this great idea that Americo was introducing pertaining to bank accounts. To anyone in this business it was an obvious failure waiting to happen. Travis and I laughed at it and told him how stupid it was. He got really offended because this IMO really wanted their agents to write Americo. He looked at me and said, "so you think you know more than Americo?" To which I said, yes!

He got so mad at us over it that he wouldn't sit with us at the company dinner, something he always did, nor speak to us the rest of the trip.

But to his credit, once it played out just like we said it would, he called both of us and apologized. Seems it took less than 6 months to fail.

But that's a story probably every experienced agent could tell. A couple years ago a company had asked me for input on issues and I took it to heart. I was talking to other agents and sending their ideas and recommendations to the proper people at the company. After a couple months Travis told me I should stop with the emails because they were not being received as intended. In other words, they were taking aim at the messenger. So I stopped.

They just do not want to hear that their ivory tower decisions are not the greatest thing to come down the pike.

 

[Allen Trent]

They just do not want to hear that their ivory tower decisions are not the greatest thing to come down the pike

Sometimes the headquarters can be 100,000 square feet surrounded by reality