IUL for a 71 Year Old?

[scagnt83]

Andrew,
Your statement insinuated that the OP "did not know what he was doing".... yet in the same post you are making incorrect statements. Do you see the irony??
(and the disrespect you show others based on incorrect info)

Im not going to reply to most of your post because I dont have the time or energy to read all of that. Go run some illustrations.

I know for a fact that a 71 year old rated at Standard who puts $100k into a SPIUL can have that policy guaranteed into their 90s. And that policy will be sustainable and there will be a positive return on their Premium even at a 4% credited rate.

DHK says your using WFG and Trans as your basis of knowledge??? LOL


Go run some illustrations using a DECENT IUL. You are using a crap product and your source of info is an organization that has a horrible reputation within this industry. My experience with IULs started with selling them to corporations to fund NQDC Plans, average premiums for that type of policy is in the $20k-$50k per year range. You cant make mistakes at that level... especially when a business is purchasing 3 or 4 policies all at once.

I dont care who you have met with in the past or who you know.... you are incorrect when it comes to the effectiveness of a SPIUL for a 71 year old.

 

[AndrewRoche]

Wow. DHK and Scgant...Is this some type of cult? If you can't take criticism, you are in the wrong business.
Not sure why you guys are assuming anything. You changed what I stated but that's OK, my son does the same thing when he's confused and doesn't know what to say (I still give him a time out though!).
Sooo, let's clarify
1- The client is 71- put in $50k-the DB is $104K-it runs to 85 on the guaranteed side
2- The original agent "recommended" this type of product to the client and term2u wanted to know why anyone would recommend it. (DHK- Aren't you assuming that this was a "want" sale and not a "need" sale. I didn't think we were present at the point of sale?)
3- I don't think it's wise for a 71 standard male looking for DB to invest in an SPIUL at that age. He can get an age 100 guaranteed UL for $325-$350 a month. (DHK- Has any company ever raised the COI on a guaranteed premium product..please advise..I'm not sure)
4- Guys...News Flash...There are a lot of agents out there selling products based on comp… not the clients need! Many of them sell IUL and SPIUL. They are unfamiliar with the product but it pays nicely.
5- What's this whole Trans thing? I used them as an example because they were the latest to have a cap reduction. DHK.... You are getting a time out! I already sent you examples of the products I sold. You know better...no dessert!
6- SGANT83- Using crap products...very articulate. Why would you ASSUME that? Ohh the Irony!
7- SGANT83 the next time you and DHK have a meeting of the minds, please ask DHK to show you some the cases I did. In an earlier post he "called me out and asked for proof" and so I sent them to him. The difference in what you sold and what I sold is premium. Most of my monthly premiums were $100k and you can definitely not make mistakes with those size cases! By the by…Why did you feel the need to tell everyone how much you sold? It is irrelevant. Knowing how a product works is not
8- DHK...you never did apologize on the “call you out post” after we emailed each other. People reading it may think I didn't comply. Well you can make up for it now.
http://www.insurance-forums.net/for...orum/index-universal-popularity-t78530-3.html
Bottom line, Chill Out Guys! Everyone knows you are good at what you do. I'll even admit that!! In this particular instance we disagree on what product should be sold. No big deal

 

[DHK]

AndrewRoche,

First, I read threads based on content. After a while, I can identify who everyone is. I've FORGOTTEN about our past email exchange. (You're not exactly the most memorable poster here, and with only 27 posts, I can't just remember everyone who is here instantly.)

And yes, you were doing some big-league things based on what you had sent me. But no, I didn't save them to look at later.

 

[scagnt83]

Wow. DHK and Scgant...Is this some type of cult? If you can't take criticism, you are in the wrong business.
Not sure why you guys are assuming anything. You changed what I stated but that's OK, my son does the same thing when he's confused and doesn't know what to say (I still give him a time out though!).
Sooo, let's clarify
1- The client is 71- put in $50k-the DB is $104K-it runs to 85 on the guaranteed side
2- The original agent "recommended" this type of product to the client and term2u wanted to know why anyone would recommend it. (DHK- Aren't you assuming that this was a "want" sale and not a "need" sale. I didn't think we were present at the point of sale?)
3- I don't think it's wise for a 71 standard male looking for DB to invest in an SPIUL at that age. He can get an age 100 guaranteed UL for $325-$350 a month. (DHK- Has any company ever raised the COI on a guaranteed premium product..please advise..I'm not sure)
4- Guys...News Flash...There are a lot of agents out there selling products based on comp… not the clients need! Many of them sell IUL and SPIUL. They are unfamiliar with the product but it pays nicely.
5- What's this whole Trans thing? I used them as an example because they were the latest to have a cap reduction. DHK.... You are getting a time out! I already sent you examples of the products I sold. You know better...no dessert!
6- SGANT83- Using crap products...very articulate. Why would you ASSUME that? Ohh the Irony!
7- SGANT83 the next time you and DHK have a meeting of the minds, please ask DHK to show you some the cases I did. In an earlier post he "called me out and asked for proof" and so I sent them to him. The difference in what you sold and what I sold is premium. Most of my monthly premiums were $100k and you can definitely not make mistakes with those size cases! By the by…Why did you feel the need to tell everyone how much you sold? It is irrelevant. Knowing how a product works is not
8- DHK...you never did apologize on the “call you out post” after we emailed each other. People reading it may think I didn't comply. Well you can make up for it now.
http://www.insurance-forums.net/for...orum/index-universal-popularity-t78530-3.html
Bottom line, Chill Out Guys! Everyone knows you are good at what you do. I'll even admit that!! In this particular instance we disagree on what product should be sold. No big deal

So you are doing $100k per month cases eh?

Then why do you now know basic facts about how life insurance works???

Under option A the death benefit remains level and when the insured passes the beneficiary gets the death benefit, correct? Lets say this occurs in the 15th year and the cash value is $25,000. Does the beneficiary get the cash value as well as the death benefit or does the insurance company get the cash value and the beneficiary only gets the death benefit?

I call big time BS!!! And if you are doing cases that size then god help those poor people that are your clients. If you really did that kind of business you would know BASIC facts about how UL works.

And I didnt just out of the blue tell people my production. In fact, I didnt tell them my exact production at all. But you asked what my experience with IUL was.... so I told you what environment I initially learned to sell the product in.


All I said initially is that you made an inaccurate statement about an IUL for a 71 year old. And if you are going to call other agents (no matter who they are) inept... the least you can do is be accurate when doing it.


And this is not about disagreeing about what product should be sold. You said (im paraphrasing here) that a SPIUL would not generate significant Cash Value for a 71 year old. THAT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

The facts are that a SPIUL is more than capable of generating a decent return for a 71 year old. If it should be sold to the OPs client or not is a different conversation all together.

This has nothing to do with recommendations or what should be sold. This has to do with you posting inaccurate information and bashing other agents for doing something that you do not have your facts straight on.

 

[AndrewRoche]

Big time BS...hmmm. That's pretty serious.

Not that I need to explain but that post was in reference to how the consumer and the agent understand the difference between option A and option B. The risk to the insured when a policy is designed as a limited pay so future premiums would be taken from the cash value to keep the policy in force. I think we were using an example of someone who intended to pay premiums for twenty years (until retirement) and died 18 years into the policy with substantial cash value. Simply put, the semantics of the beneficiary getting just the death benefit and the cash value going to the insurance company. In some cases the average consumer does not understand that the insurance company does not get the cash value. Please continue reading the rest of the post. DHK was very helpful in his explanation even though some agents still posted disagreement.

Concerning why a 71 year old should not invest $50k for a $104k benefit guaranteed to age 85, my reasons are explained in my previous posts.

That said I'm not sure how to respond to a grown man calling me a liar. I think I'll go with my initial reaction and just say you have proven yourself a small, petty man and even though I disagreed with you on your sales rationale I never doubted your integrity. Obviously, I was wrong.

 

[scagnt83]

That said I'm not sure how to respond to a grown man calling me a liar. I think I'll go with my initial reaction and just say you have proven yourself a small, petty man and even though I disagreed with you on your sales rationale I never doubted your integrity. Obviously, I was wrong.

Since that's coming from a man who claims that "any agent who sells a SPIUL to a 71 year old doesn't know what they are doing".... I could care less what you think of me.

Perhaps I misunderstood your original post or misread something. But if that was the case I think you could have cleared that up in a single paragraph and not with an essay.

I also never justified the policy sold that the OP mentioned. What I said was that a SPIUL can be perfectly suitable for a 71 year old. To know if the design of that specific policy is suitable we would need to see an illustration.

 

[term2u]

Hi guys,

Sorry for posing such a general question without providing an actual illustration.

Here is the actual illustration, please let me know what you think.. To me, it seems like his advisor could have designed a much better policy, or that a GUL would've been a better fit for him?

It seems like the advisor doesn't have a clue of what she's doing, but I'd be interested to know your thoughts? Thanks!

 

[scagnt83]

Hi guys,

Sorry for posing such a general question without providing an actual illustration.

Here is the actual illustration, please let me know what you think.. To me, it seems like his advisor could have designed a much better policy, or that a GUL would've been a better fit for him?

It seems like the advisor doesn't have a clue of what she's doing, but I'd be interested to know your thoughts? Thanks!

Thats not a strong looking policy. I would be very curious what it looks like at 5% and 4% instead of 6%/3%. A good general rule of thumb is that if the policy does not lapse at a 4% credited rate then it is safe.

I would just ask your client what his goals for it are. Although there is nothing to do about it now at this point.

It is possible that it is an ok policy if DB was the only goal. Just depends what it looks like at a 4% credited rate... but judging from the 3% midpoint, I have serious doubts that it would not lapse at 4%.

If CV was a goal then its useless.

 

[term2u]

Thats not a strong looking policy. I would be very curious what it looks like at 5% and 4% instead of 6%/3%. A good general rule of thumb is that if the policy does not lapse at a 4% credited rate then it is safe.

I would just ask your client what his goals for it are. Although there is nothing to do about it now at this point.

It is possible that it is an ok policy if DB was the only goal. Just depends what it looks like at a 4% credited rate... but judging from the 3% midpoint, I have serious doubts that it would not lapse at 4%.

If CV was a goal then its useless.

Thanks for your input - That's exactly what I was thinking.. I personally would have put the $50k into a SPGUL, as they're more concerned with permanent DB.

They're actually wanting to take out another $100k continuous pay GUL with me, as they have about $400k in loans outstanding on some rental properties, so that's the purpose of the insurance. I told them that I'd look over this policy, which they just put into place about 6 mths ago, but you're right.. The surrender charges are around $3k. I'm also wondering how realistic it is that he won't outlive the policy, as he does have a history of longevity in his family??

It sounds like their advisor doesn't have a clue of what she's doing, as even if they would have stuck with a SPIUL, there are/were better options/carriers available.. I'm just wanting to make sure that they have the best coverage available as a $50k single premium fund is a lot of money.

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Any other input here?

 

[DHK]

I would also concur with scagnt83's assessment.

My *guess* would be that perhaps this was the only single premium life product that they had to sell, so that's why they sold it? AIG did just recently divest of their agent field force, so perhaps that was the reason for that recommendation?