- 333
Series License
- Thread starter Steve20
- Start date
- 11,278
You mean other than you? That's what you posted and didn't attribute it to Fisher.
Of course, Fisher built his multi-BILLION dollar RIA based on his bias... most of which are true as he primarily targets variable annuities. Some of his points are exaggerated to inspire plenty of doubt.
I would post his Annuity Insights report, but it's too large for the forum. You'd have to request it yourself.
Here's the truth: if annuities weren't as compelling and selling so much... he wouldn't have anything to bash to win over more AUM. You don't pick something that isn't selling to bash it to win over assets. You pick something huge, market your bias against it HARD and consistently, and rake in the AUM.
- 2,584
Can you explain how the poster was primarily concerned about commission ?
I don't see how asking about commission leads someone to make this conclusion ?
- 11,278
Just saw both of these links last night... and since they both mention Fisher Investments, I figure I'd go ahead and post them:
Newsletter May, 2016
Newsletter May, 2016
zwcoop
Expert
- 39
I am also relatively new to the game. I spent the last 3 years working in a captive environment that focused on senior products generally. I just opened the door to an independent firm last week and am still in the process of getting all my contracts up and going.
I passed my 7&66 last year and am in my CFP course now. I personally would recommend just knocking out your 7&66 for the fact that you will not ever need anything else. Yes, you can do 'most things' with a 6,63,65 and the 6 is definitely easier than the 7 but, if this is your chosen career, I would get the most comprehensive knowledge you can.
As far as whether you should sell annuities and/or get your security licenses. I would say yes to both especially if you're working the senior market. Fixed/Indexed annuities are not a good fit for everyone and are very complicated product but are a great tool to have for retirement income planning. I agree with the above that they are the only tool to use to reduce longevity risk.
One of the issues I had with 'FAs' at my old firm is that they would quick get a 6 and 63 so they could call themselves a financial adviser and then, just by happenstance, sell everyone they met a fixed annuity ... that approach I think is dog poop!!
I you strive to give good financial and insurance planning, as I do, then definitely get your security licenses and learn as much about as many products as you can. Then, when you meet someone you can simply provide them with whatever happens to best for their situation.
One thing I will say about selling annuities without your securities licenses that I feel is very limiting is your inability to handle qualified accounts. Most of the annuities I have written have come from rolling 401k's or the like and I wouldn't have been able to get to that point in the conversation on many of them without first running a Morningstar report and reviewing their qualified accounts.
I passed my 7&66 last year and am in my CFP course now. I personally would recommend just knocking out your 7&66 for the fact that you will not ever need anything else. Yes, you can do 'most things' with a 6,63,65 and the 6 is definitely easier than the 7 but, if this is your chosen career, I would get the most comprehensive knowledge you can.
As far as whether you should sell annuities and/or get your security licenses. I would say yes to both especially if you're working the senior market. Fixed/Indexed annuities are not a good fit for everyone and are very complicated product but are a great tool to have for retirement income planning. I agree with the above that they are the only tool to use to reduce longevity risk.
One of the issues I had with 'FAs' at my old firm is that they would quick get a 6 and 63 so they could call themselves a financial adviser and then, just by happenstance, sell everyone they met a fixed annuity ... that approach I think is dog poop!!
I you strive to give good financial and insurance planning, as I do, then definitely get your security licenses and learn as much about as many products as you can. Then, when you meet someone you can simply provide them with whatever happens to best for their situation.
One thing I will say about selling annuities without your securities licenses that I feel is very limiting is your inability to handle qualified accounts. Most of the annuities I have written have come from rolling 401k's or the like and I wouldn't have been able to get to that point in the conversation on many of them without first running a Morningstar report and reviewing their qualified accounts.
- 11,278
Licensing does not equal knowledge nor competence.
Licensing means that you can be held liable for your actions and recommendations.
That's one opinion. Annuities are a 'want' product. Either people want what they can do for them, or they don't. As long as they are explained accurately and thoroughly disclosed, there's no problem with that.
Misrepresentation and ignorance: A dangerous blend for ethics | ThinkAdvisor
"Best for their situation" is highly dependent upon the knowledge, experience, wisdom, and expertise the agent/advisor brings to the table.
Another opinion.
There is a difference between making a portfolio recommendation and presenting an alternative. It IS a fine line, but it's done all the time. If one is not securities licensed/registered you cannot give an analysis or a recommendation to buy, sell, hold, risk analysis, or whatever... based on the merits of the portfolio. You can propose an alternative strategy all day long without evaluating the account today.
If I want to evaluate the alpha, beta, sharpe, r2, standard deviation of any holding, I can do it with Google Finance. Just type in the ticker symbol and you can get that information going back up to 10 years.
It is possible to learn about as many products as you can... without being licensed to sell them. The limitations of the broker/dealer environment make that choice a far more career limiting situation for me than I would care to repeat. (Yes, I had my 7 & 66 many years ago. And I have my ChFC designation.)
Today, the only option I would care to possibly add... would be an RIA/IAR affiliation to offer managed money solutions. I've researched it, but for now, I've decided against it.
I can be just as comprehensive in my advice... aside from offering analysis or specific recommendations on portfolios of securities.
zwcoop
Expert
- 39
I agree with most of the above and, if it wasn't stated explicitly ... those are indeed my opinions and not indisputable facts ingrained into the fabric of the universe.
I certainty did not mean to imply that you couldn't give good advice without a securities license or that it is unethical to present an annuity as an alternative to an investment portfolio. I have just had a bad experience seeing people use securities licenses as a badge used to shove a fixed annuity down as many throats as they could. In this case it was a good representation of both misrepresentation AND ignorance.
I also definitely agree that licensing, certifications etc do not always equate to knowledge and certainty not with experience. However, I still hold that my opinion is, yes, get your securities licenses and yes get the 7&66 because it is the most comprehensive approach.
You can and a lot do - walk the fine line of giving investment advise and if you do it ethically more power to you. But, for someone starting out I would give yourself as many options as possible.
I have decided not to add a BD relationship at all but have selected an open platform RIA that I'm excited about.
I certainty did not mean to imply that you couldn't give good advice without a securities license or that it is unethical to present an annuity as an alternative to an investment portfolio. I have just had a bad experience seeing people use securities licenses as a badge used to shove a fixed annuity down as many throats as they could. In this case it was a good representation of both misrepresentation AND ignorance.
I also definitely agree that licensing, certifications etc do not always equate to knowledge and certainty not with experience. However, I still hold that my opinion is, yes, get your securities licenses and yes get the 7&66 because it is the most comprehensive approach.
You can and a lot do - walk the fine line of giving investment advise and if you do it ethically more power to you. But, for someone starting out I would give yourself as many options as possible.
I have decided not to add a BD relationship at all but have selected an open platform RIA that I'm excited about.
- 11,278
You'd get a kick out of reading this thread then. The Tracy Mitchell case out of Missouri is one where he got a series 65 ONLY to call himself a "financial advisor" and ONLY to sell fixed indexed annuities (badly too). This guy was incompetent in the fact that he'd talk about the indexing feature, but allocate the balance to the fixed interest bucket.
https://insurance-forums.com/community/threads/watch-calling-yourself-a-financial-planner.27412/
And if you haven't read John Olsen's books on annuities, they should be considered "required reading":
Amazon product ASIN B073D8JTYX
In short - if you're going to get securities licensed... use them, use them properly, and adhere to the rules & regs. Otherwise, they can be a liability if you're only using them to sell insurance products. (There's another thread somewhere on here where I discussed how a certain RIA firm recruiting agents to get their Series 65 ONLY for "switch" or "source of funds" issues... and I cited this case being a good reason NOT to.)
- 11,278
Ken Fisher LOVES annuities... at least the returns the companies generate for shareholders:
Ken Fisher, famous annuity hater, invested in annuity companies
Ken Fisher, famous annuity hater, invested in annuity companies
