Thank you for doing the calculations!
Whole Life... Why Not to Love It?
- Thread starter SouthernComfort
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Thank you for doing the calculations!
All right, I'm going to try and speak in your vernacular to make understanding a tad easier, so here goes...
The dividend rate is the rate at is the yield on the reserve. For whole life policies, you and I will never know precisely what the exact reserve is, but SNFL requires that is be no less than the policies cash surrender value.
So, when a company declares a dividend for the year, the dividend rate is quoted to help you understand what you are getting in total between guaranteed interest and dividends. The yield is based off the cash surrender value.
If you are buying life insurance specifically for cash accumulation purposes, it's all a game of maximizing cash by making as much of your planned premium paid-up additions because paid up additions will create immediate cash in the policy, which will then earn dividends and guaranteed interest.
This is all standard insurance regulation stuff that you should know if you want to profess to be an insurance professional.
The dividend rate does not tell us what you'll earn each year, just like the 12.21% average return for P&G over the last 30 years doesn't mean we got 12.21% year over year on P&G stock.
And if this still isn't working, take a gander at page two of this little gem, calculate the IRR on that policy and then try to tell me whole life yields are bad:
Bogleheads • View topic - Term Life vs Whole Life Math
Numbers are attached. I was going to upload the excel file, but the forum won't let me, so you'll have to settle for a screen shot instead.
And please, for the sake of not setting the women's movement back another 10 years, please stop acting like a little kid. Your local ABWA chapter must be so proud...<---hey I actually meant to use that one!
Where's the real illustration?
All you did was put some numbers down on an excel spreadsheet.
Don't you have a real illustration either for a policy that you're selling today or an in-force illustration from a policy that was sold years ago?
gimmeabreak.
anybody can put numbers down on an excel spreadsheet.
Ed, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. When you are presented with facts, you dissemble and choose to ignore them.
Why are you involved in an insurance forum if you are clearly infatuated with investments and refuse to entertain discussions that don't match what you so fiercely want to believe in?
Why are you involved in an insurance forum if you are clearly infatuated with investments and refuse to entertain discussions that don't match what you so fiercely want to believe in?
I asked for a real illustration to prove what BTNRS was claiming. Instead of sending a real illustration, he sends an excel spreadsheet that he made himself.
Anybody can put any numbers they want on any excel spreadsheet.
Made up numbers are not facts.
If he'll give me a real illustration, then I'll believe him.
I asked for a real illustration to prove what BTNRS was claiming. Instead of sending a real illustration, he sends an excel spreadsheet that he made himself.
Anybody can put any numbers they want on any excel spreadsheet.
Made up numbers are not facts.
If he'll give me a real illustration, then I'll believe him.
You can't seriously be that stupid. I honestly feel like I'm trying to teach basic algebra to a 5 year old.
Those are real numbers. The REAL numbers you quoted from Yahoo Finance, and the REAL historical dividend rates from those 4 insurance companies.
Those cells are back by REAL calculations.
Why don't you use your time on the internet for something more than showing us all that the DOI should revoke your license because the system obviously failed to weed out such a incompetent buffoon and actually spend some time learning something about the products you both want to champion and rally against, as well as the underlying finance.
We're obviously on different levels and until you can muster up the intelligence and product knowledge to speak more intelligently on this topic, this is not a conversation we can have.
Stop trying to make your half-assed and ill conceived advice work and understand that absolute statements like the one you initially made are stupid and dangerous.
Or, if you think you can (but I seriously doubt you'd even know where to begin) feel free to take the numbers I've supplied to you (and since your tone leaves me with the impression that you're a tad on the lazy side when it comes to higher level thinking and conversation, so it's a good thing one of us actually took the time to collect the data) and show me where it is that I went wrong.
If you were truly interested in the truth here, that's what you would have done. But something tells me you have neither the ability nor the interest.
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Oh and as for the real illustration, because I have serious doubt regarding your ability to really even grasp what the excel file is telling you. You could have looked at the link I provided.
Here, let me make it easy for you, you don't even need to scroll up and find it (since sifting through information doesn't appear to be your thing)
Bogleheads • View topic - Term Life vs Whole Life Math <- Click Here
I'm not sure how much easier I can make that for you.
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Brandon, you're wasting your time with this twit. She is here for her own reasons but it's clear it's more for her amusement (and ours too) than anything meaningful.
She thinks posting anonymously makes it easy to act like a nincompoop (I love that word) without fear of consequences.
So here's what I'm going to do. Assuming that "ABWA" mentioned in her profile is the American Business Women's Association, and she says she lives in NJ, I'll see if I can't find out more about this poster.
Funny thing though is that I didn't see a NJ chapter, but I'll look again for surrounding areas. She claims to be a chapter president. Hmm.
Then I wonder what FINRA or her BD or RIA would say if they knew she was giving investment and securities advice in a message board.
Would I really waste my time doing all that? I don't know. I just don't know.
She thinks posting anonymously makes it easy to act like a nincompoop (I love that word) without fear of consequences.
So here's what I'm going to do. Assuming that "ABWA" mentioned in her profile is the American Business Women's Association, and she says she lives in NJ, I'll see if I can't find out more about this poster.
Funny thing though is that I didn't see a NJ chapter, but I'll look again for surrounding areas. She claims to be a chapter president. Hmm.
Then I wonder what FINRA or her BD or RIA would say if they knew she was giving investment and securities advice in a message board.
Would I really waste my time doing all that? I don't know. I just don't know.
Are your withdrawals, policy loans? The reason for this question is not all withdrawals are a premium refund. So how did you come up with 37k x 20 yrs. tax-free if premiums paid in is only 240,000? Are you talking about policy loans? My understanding is if your taking out withdrawals at some point you will be withdrawing interest. Please clarify for me. Thx...
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Yes he is using policy loans.
Here we go again.........................................
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