Federal Judge in Florida Case Expected to Rule on Monday

[jbage007]

This is a great discussion, and valid one. It's something I have given a lot of thought to, especially after my commissions were whacked in half.

Realizing that the future is bleak for individual health plan sales, my conclusion is that we would be a whole lot better off with a European-style HMO for America that is fully taxpayer funded.

If the Gov't came to me and said, "Your taxes are going up by $4,500 a year," I'd be ticked off. But if they they said, "You won't have to pay that $6,700 annual premium for that $10,000 deductible plan," now I'm all ears.

If you have a Government sponsored, TAX-SUPPORTED "single payor" plan that provides a certain level of basic care for everyone, now most people are going to be content. Even the right wingers will get over their initial concern about "government takeover."

Then allow people to buy supplemental coverage for if they want to see the GOOD docs, etc.

Because trust me - lots of people who say they went into medicine to help people will be shown for the liars they are. They got in it for the money and when the money is dramatically reduced, they're out selling Cadillacs. There WILL be shortages of doctors, etc.

At the same time, yankee ingenuity will prevail and people with means will be able to afford special care from "private" docs.

It would work. And most people would be happy.

But those damn Democrats never bothered to ask me about this before they shoved that unconstitutional chunk of coal down our throats.

 

[aheff]

Al-
"healthcare comes back to the main burner... and you are toast."
I think Obama loses the healthcare debate-big time. What Obama has going for him-big time, is that economy will be recovering from now 'til election. He'll win in 2012, dems lose Senate. Fun stuff.

 

[0b1kanobee]

Al-
"healthcare comes back to the main burner... and you are toast."
I think Obama loses the healthcare debate-big time. What Obama has going for him-big time, is that economy will be recovering from now 'til election. He'll win in 2012, dems lose Senate. Fun stuff.

Well it can't get much worse or else we are going to be back in the stone age.

If I was running against him and if this economy turns around I would somehow try and convince the public that as soon as the elections are over we are going back into the crapper. Scare the hell out of them (the public).

 

[GreenSky]

If the Gov't came to me and said, "Your taxes are going up by $4,500 a year," I'd be ticked off. But if they they said, "You won't have to pay that $6,700 annual premium for that $10,000 deductible plan," now I'm all ears.

If you have a Government sponsored, TAX-SUPPORTED "single payor" plan that provides a certain level of basic care for everyone, now most people are going to be content.

Aside from the problems of the govt dictating to doctors how they can practice medicine, how do the 50% of us that pay taxes pay for the 50% who do not?

What happens when only 40% are paying; 30%? As the baby boomer retire (as if), who's going to pay for us?

And that $4,500 in additional tax? What program has ever cost anywhere near what is expected?

How's that govt. paid healthcare working out in England?

Rick

 

[jbage007]

see? people b*tching already

 

[VolAgent]

Your point is well-made. However the DoD has never had an incentive to cut costs as there is no interest group out there that wants to look anti-defense.

What if we go to a one-payor Medicare-for-all system and we hire a couple of thousand arch-conservative lawyers and accountants and actuaries (applications from insurance companies will pour in) and mandate that all health contracts be bid on... use the same procedures any company uses when buying a large number of supplies.

As for services, no bid is needed. Just set the rate. I went through the whole thing earlier. If the docs and hospitals don't want to "play" we'll train new docs and build government hospitals. What's the big deal? End both of these bogus wars and cut the defense budget by 50% and end agricultural subs, earmarks, and pork projects (all things tea-baggers seem to advocate) and we have plenty of money for a one-payor system.

Nope, companies will not provide products at a loss, and they definitely will stop developing new medicines and products if the margins aren't there. That is why DoD often does cost plus contracts. People don't innovate if there is nothing in it for them. There is a reason American companies are the leader in health care development, and foreign companies innovate for our market. Its where the money is.

And you know I am a life agent. I don't want a one-payer system because it will only make things worse. We'll have a true system of have and have nots. Those with money will get real health care, those without will get a band-aid an appointment in two months to stitch the wound closed.

 

[djs]

Al - there have been many, many, many alternatives offered. Most liberals need new hearing aids and should listen from time to time. Now, I agree, some alternatives are worse than the problem (Obamacare being one of them). Few address the problem but rather the symptoms (similar to Obamacare).

Medicare for all would be so expensive it wouldn't work either. Of course, if the goal is to simply 'cover everyone', well then you could argue it does work. If the goal is to lower the average persons health premiums, then no, it doesn't, without price fixing. Price fixing is illegal in the US.

If private insurers could play by the same rules as Medicare, then premiums would be less there as well.

Any discussion regarding health insurance / health care, you need to define what problem you want to fix. The simplest thing to do is to say 'Medicare for all' will fix access, but it doesn't fix funding nor does it really contain costs. Face it, the reason Obama gave for needing health insurance reform was Medicare is to big of a burden for the US Government.

Dan

 

[somarco]

If the Gov't came to me and said, "Your taxes are going up by $4,500 a year," I'd be ticked off. But if they they said, "You won't have to pay that $6,700 annual premium for that $10,000 deductible plan," now I'm all ears.

Fail 3rd grade math?

It doesn't work that way unless the Chinese are willing to loan Barry & Ben more money. Even if they are, it won't last forever.

What Obama has going for him-big time, is that economy will be recovering from now 'til election. He'll win in 2012,

Kinda doubt it.

Foreclosures for 2011 projected to be higher than 2010 and that was a record year.

Even Bernanke now concedes it will be at least 2 more years before unemployment numbers make a noticeable improvement.

 

[GreenSky]

Even Bernanke now concedes it will be at least 2 more years before unemployment numbers make a noticeable improvement.

Then it's only fair to give Obama another 4 years. You can't expect him to fix in 2 years something that took the Democratic majority in both houses 4 years to screw up. (Yes, Bush helped them a great deal).

RIck

 

[stuy119]

Forget foreclosures. Beware the interest repayments due on business loans and on commercial property. That's the next wave that's about to kill the economy.