- Thread starter
- #41
- 128
Only the Guardian MP has discussed my target market. Likely to be educators since I worked in that industry for the last 6 years.
What Do You Think of this GA Pitch?
- Thread starter SuperWoman
- Start date
- 1,581
From reading this thread it sounds like you should be an underwriter...you may talk yourself out of sales.
If your market is going to be educators (and you want to be captive) I wouldn't join with NYL. JMHO.
- Thread starter
- #45
- 128
Well....my decision may have been made for me. :/
I just received a very disturbing call from the MP at the Guardian firm. Angry and defensive because I made a request to speak to one of his agents. After our meeting on Monday, his director of recruitment emailed me to say hello and asked me to keep in touch with her while I was getting my licensing training. I replied assuring her I would, and asked if I could speak to one of their producers, specifically one who came from a captive agency (NYL). I wanted to get some of their experiential knowledge at another firm and why they like this firm etc. There are big differences between NYL and Guardian, obviously (Not just the commission structure). My good friend who works for Guardian and referred me to this firm had suggested I speak to one of their producers, so I asked!
Well that was a no-no, big time. The MP just lashed at me saying no way he would ask a producer to take a meeting with me to discuss their past experience. ( I asked for a phone call, not meeting). They are very busy, time is critical to them, and especially he wouldn't ask them to speak to "someone who doesnt have their license yet and with whom we have not even made a formal offer to". Yes, he said that.
I was shocked. His intense anger was palpable through the phone. He thought it the height of inappropriateness that I asked the recruiter and not him directly. I told him I was responding to her email and had NO idea it would be taken this way. Honestly, I am shocked not so much at his refusal, but at his level of reaction. I told him I was disappointed in his strong reaction and that I felt he was very angry and defensive. He denied it all, said "Nothing here ever makes me angry". Really could have fooled me".
Honestly, I don't see how I can work with the man. I am simply stunned.
I just received a very disturbing call from the MP at the Guardian firm. Angry and defensive because I made a request to speak to one of his agents. After our meeting on Monday, his director of recruitment emailed me to say hello and asked me to keep in touch with her while I was getting my licensing training. I replied assuring her I would, and asked if I could speak to one of their producers, specifically one who came from a captive agency (NYL). I wanted to get some of their experiential knowledge at another firm and why they like this firm etc. There are big differences between NYL and Guardian, obviously (Not just the commission structure). My good friend who works for Guardian and referred me to this firm had suggested I speak to one of their producers, so I asked!
Well that was a no-no, big time. The MP just lashed at me saying no way he would ask a producer to take a meeting with me to discuss their past experience. ( I asked for a phone call, not meeting). They are very busy, time is critical to them, and especially he wouldn't ask them to speak to "someone who doesnt have their license yet and with whom we have not even made a formal offer to". Yes, he said that.
I was shocked. His intense anger was palpable through the phone. He thought it the height of inappropriateness that I asked the recruiter and not him directly. I told him I was responding to her email and had NO idea it would be taken this way. Honestly, I am shocked not so much at his refusal, but at his level of reaction. I told him I was disappointed in his strong reaction and that I felt he was very angry and defensive. He denied it all, said "Nothing here ever makes me angry". Really could have fooled me".
Honestly, I don't see how I can work with the man. I am simply stunned.
- 11,297
Wow. You wanted to "peak behind the curtain"... and now you may have seen his true colors.
When something looks too good to be true... well, you know the rest.
The only possible response I could think of, is this: You are doing "due diligence" to make a long-term - perhaps even a life-long commitment - to a financial services firm. Doesn't it make sense to do as much investigation to get all the facts as you possibly can - including the experiences of those who have already come on board? Regardless of if it's positive, negative, or a mix (most likely outcome), you want to get an idea of what you are going to experience from those who have already gone ahead.
No professional firm would outright refuse you. They may say that "it's not yet an appropriate request until we've made an offer"... but they wouldn't refuse you.
If you were looking into a 'franchise' - like a McDonalds or a Subway... don't you think they would offer to let you talk to one of their current franchise owners?
And don't tell me that every single agent is so busy with appointments that they don't have time to sit with you during lunch hours to talk to you about their experiences with the firm. I don't buy it. Unless every agent is at MDRT top of the table... and then, they can AFFORD the time to help someone new in the industry.
I had a lunch meeting with the past president of the MDRT... (after I joined the firm) because I wanted to get some ideas of training and a path to follow. We did have lunch and he gave me some ideas (very old-school ideas). Good agents will want to "pay it forward" when they can. If they don't have the time, they're not 'successful enough' to spare that time. That is also a red flag.
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This MP must be thinking that joining his firm is like a job in corporate America. For a "job", you don't need to talk to other people who work there. But for a business opportunity or a commission-only position... doing your homework is very helpful.
We know that's not how this works... but unfortunately, you can't teach him how to think. It's (supposedly) his job to teach you.
When something looks too good to be true... well, you know the rest.
The only possible response I could think of, is this: You are doing "due diligence" to make a long-term - perhaps even a life-long commitment - to a financial services firm. Doesn't it make sense to do as much investigation to get all the facts as you possibly can - including the experiences of those who have already come on board? Regardless of if it's positive, negative, or a mix (most likely outcome), you want to get an idea of what you are going to experience from those who have already gone ahead.
No professional firm would outright refuse you. They may say that "it's not yet an appropriate request until we've made an offer"... but they wouldn't refuse you.
If you were looking into a 'franchise' - like a McDonalds or a Subway... don't you think they would offer to let you talk to one of their current franchise owners?
And don't tell me that every single agent is so busy with appointments that they don't have time to sit with you during lunch hours to talk to you about their experiences with the firm. I don't buy it. Unless every agent is at MDRT top of the table... and then, they can AFFORD the time to help someone new in the industry.
I had a lunch meeting with the past president of the MDRT... (after I joined the firm) because I wanted to get some ideas of training and a path to follow. We did have lunch and he gave me some ideas (very old-school ideas). Good agents will want to "pay it forward" when they can. If they don't have the time, they're not 'successful enough' to spare that time. That is also a red flag.
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This MP must be thinking that joining his firm is like a job in corporate America. For a "job", you don't need to talk to other people who work there. But for a business opportunity or a commission-only position... doing your homework is very helpful.
We know that's not how this works... but unfortunately, you can't teach him how to think. It's (supposedly) his job to teach you.
No reason to speculate as to why he said what he said. The main thing you realized is that there is SOMETHING that caused the reaction and I can't think of any way that it could be positive. (the list of possible negatives is endless) Stick with your gut and move on immediately. No reason should be given with someone like that. Just, "I decided to pursue a different avenue....thanks for your time."
- 4,689
His arrogance showed up in a major way it looks like. How dare you question his sterling firm!
As DHK said, he could have went about it in a much lighter way since you are not licensed and no offer has been rendered.
I'd also question why the recruiter ran to him with your seemingly harmless request. This guy probably has them all trained well!
Welcome to the captive world! You know, you don't have to go this route! Get your license and see what happens.
As DHK said, he could have went about it in a much lighter way since you are not licensed and no offer has been rendered.
I'd also question why the recruiter ran to him with your seemingly harmless request. This guy probably has them all trained well!
Welcome to the captive world! You know, you don't have to go this route! Get your license and see what happens.
- Thread starter
- #49
- 128
This firm definitely appears as the Saks 5th avenue of agencies. High rent district, waterfront view, right address. The air of superiority was in the air a tiny bit previously. Something interesting to note about this man: Early on he told me he was with another firm for 18 yrs, had an issue and left. Went to another firm for a short while, then left to Guardian where he's been 18 months. My friend who works worked under him 2 firms ago, and followed him every time he left. (He likes him that much). MP tells me this but doesn't give me the names or timelines, but yesterday my friend did.
He left 18 yr firm to go to Principal (he'd had offer from Guardian as well, but chose Principal). After one week, he hated it, called Guardian asking if their offer was still good. It was and he's been at Guardian since. My friend was disappointed at making all these moves himself, but he does seem to like and trust working with this MP. Not for nothing, my friend is a 63 yr old highly skilled and successful business man who made the switch into insurance just 4 yrs ago. He's no neophyte.
So it's interesting that my intention in speaking with another producer was to avoid exactly his own mistakes. Maybe that's what struck the nerve.
I am disappointed. If he would've called back to apologize for his reaction, I'd have felt a lot better. BTW...he gave me a full compensation proposal with my name on it and everything. That seems to indicate a high level of interest in my joining them. But not a formal offer. It's kinda like a boy telling me how great I'd look in my prom dress and he in his tux, but yet he didn't exactly invite me to the dance.
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Edit:
Just spoke to my Guardian friend, told him what happen. He said "F* him, I'm going to call one of the former NYL agents myself and ask her to call you. He is management but agents stick together". LOL.
He also said it's the end of the month and he may have his man-sales period.
He left 18 yr firm to go to Principal (he'd had offer from Guardian as well, but chose Principal). After one week, he hated it, called Guardian asking if their offer was still good. It was and he's been at Guardian since. My friend was disappointed at making all these moves himself, but he does seem to like and trust working with this MP. Not for nothing, my friend is a 63 yr old highly skilled and successful business man who made the switch into insurance just 4 yrs ago. He's no neophyte.
So it's interesting that my intention in speaking with another producer was to avoid exactly his own mistakes. Maybe that's what struck the nerve.
I am disappointed. If he would've called back to apologize for his reaction, I'd have felt a lot better. BTW...he gave me a full compensation proposal with my name on it and everything. That seems to indicate a high level of interest in my joining them. But not a formal offer. It's kinda like a boy telling me how great I'd look in my prom dress and he in his tux, but yet he didn't exactly invite me to the dance.
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Edit:
Just spoke to my Guardian friend, told him what happen. He said "F* him, I'm going to call one of the former NYL agents myself and ask her to call you. He is management but agents stick together". LOL.
He also said it's the end of the month and he may have his man-sales period.
webstar1122
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Subscribing, I am in the final interview stages with NYL myself and would like any additional insight you can provide from your meeting the the former NYL agent
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