Who OWNS Your Leads?

[Rearden]

You learn to care after getting robbed, and having your leads double-dealt.

Plus, low-returns are a boogey-man. There are plenty of carriers who will comp you on lead costs for production (5-Star, SNL), or give you access to wholesale lead prices (Monu) for sending 8 dollars of production.

Not to mention the improvement of FYC and reneeals will make your ROI that much better, anyhow.

I'm not saying it's wrong if it's well disclosed. And I can see where some agents would agree to these terms if they are getting leads cheap enough and the commissions aren't cut too much.

But let's say I'm Joe Average FE agent and I sell $8,000 monthly. I have a choice of 110% commissions with the usual 10-year renewals and buy my own leads anywhere I want in any zip codes I want and any demographics I want.

Other choice is that I take 90% contracts, lower or in some cases NO renewals, limited zip codes, and the draw to all this is I get my leads for $21 monthly which is a savings of around $7 per lead on average. So I save around $140 per week but I give up around $400 per week in first year commissions. I also take lower renewals.

Now after about a year of this, I decide to go independent.

Now all those leads I bought and really paid more than full price for are used to fund my new competitor and possibly sold several times to put several competitors right back in the homes I sold and the ones still in my pipeline. My own leads are being used to take business away from me AND make a lot of free profit for the people who are doing it to me.

I'm trying to gauge how much agents even care about such things.

 

[benefits365]

I'm not saying it's wrong if it's well disclosed. And I can see where some agents would agree to these terms if they are getting leads cheap enough and the commissions aren't cut too much. But let's say I'm Joe Average FE agent and I sell $8,000 monthly. I have a choice of 110% commissions with the usual 10-year renewals and buy my own leads anywhere I want in any zip codes I want and any demographics I want. Other choice is that I take 90% contracts, lower or in some cases NO renewals, limited zip codes, and the draw to all this is I get my leads for $21 monthly which is a savings of around $7 per lead on average. So I save around $140 per week but I give up around $400 per week in first year commissions. I also take lower renewals. Now after about a year of this, I decide to go independent. Now all those leads I bought and really paid more than full price for are used to fund my new competitor and possibly sold several times to put several competitors right back in the homes I sold and the ones still in my pipeline. My own leads are being used to take business away from me AND make a lot of free profit for the people who are doing it to me. I'm trying to gauge how much agents even care about such things.

I agree the issue is disclosure. Much as we have gone back and forth on this forum about releases, so too should the resell policies of leads be clearly explained. To take it a step further, I also concur with newby that the parasitic nature of sending in agents on previously sold leads is a dirty tactic, but I also think it's just another symptom of our industry, sadly. Yes, it's wrong. A lot of carriers, and uplines, behave so oddly: when you're a part if someone's downline, we're buddies. The second someone wants to leave, though, I'm dead to you and you'll do anything you can to damage me. Amicable splits are so foreign in the industry.

 

[John Galt]

I agree the issue is disclosure. Much as we have gone back and forth on this forum about releases, so too should the resell policies of leads be clearly explained. To take it a step further, I also concur with newby that the parasitic nature of sending in agents on previously sold leads is a dirty tactic, but I also think it's just another symptom of our industry, sadly. Yes, it's wrong. A lot of carriers, and uplines, behave so oddly: when you're a part if someone's downline, we're buddies. The second someone wants to leave, though, I'm dead to you and you'll do anything you can to damage me. Amicable splits are so foreign in the industry.

Guess Im gonna find out soon, will be joining another IMO in a couple of weeks. Extensive research here as well as interviewing current agents of the IMO make me feel more comfortable with them than the current one I am with, plus, the leads will be more fresh and a higher comp rate. Still learning but getting there surely. You guys are awesome

 

[TwiLight]

Newby, You are forgetting the big thing about the leads the agent purchases from the IMO companies.

The Agent does not OWN the lead. It is Leased for a period of 30-45 days exclusively for the agent to sell to. The IMO can do anything they want after that period with the lead.

They never SELL the lead, it is actually Leased by the Agent.

Another thing I have issues with is the whole FE lead system is broken and you are seeing the desperation with the YOU KNOW WHO IMO's with all the poor quality.

FE Leads are so saturated to the same market and demographic that only experienced agents are successful in converting them to sales, the new agent is a pawn and not capable of selling to the traditional FE Leads. Especially the E64 lead that is being used often. The agent needs to know how to sell and pivot in a household and new agent barely remembers the product let alone have a sales background with skill enough to handle a prospect that thinks he/she is getting something for Free.

 

[slushpuppyking]

I'm not saying it's wrong if it's well disclosed. And I can see where some agents would agree to these terms if they are getting leads cheap enough and the commissions aren't cut too much.

But let's say I'm Joe Average FE agent and I sell $8,000 monthly. I have a choice of 110% commissions with the usual 10-year renewals and buy my own leads anywhere I want in any zip codes I want and any demographics I want.

Other choice is that I take 90% contracts, lower or in some cases NO renewals, limited zip codes, and the draw to all this is I get my leads for $21 monthly which is a savings of around $7 per lead on average. So I save around $140 per week but I give up around $400 per week in first year commissions. I also take lower renewals.

Now after about a year of this, I decide to go independent.

Now all those leads I bought and really paid more than full price for are used to fund my new competitor and possibly sold several times to put several competitors right back in the homes I sold and the ones still in my pipeline. My own leads are being used to take business away from me AND make a lot of free profit for the people who are doing it to me.

I'm trying to gauge how much agents even care about such things.

Well again if all that is disclosed than it's just the bullet you *bite* when making the transition to independent. If you know going indy potentially means all your past leads could be sold to a rookie than I suppose you would factor that in when deciding to go independent.

But we know most rookie agents don't actually work anything.....plus they aren't going into the home with a better product/price...so what's the concern? Even if they happen to have a new carrier that wasn't available during your stint that is a tad cheaper.....still a rookie agent and unlikely to replace your business.

In that scenario you have an agent that is not only truly working the lead but also giving a helluva presentation.

Seems too unlikely to really be concerned with in my opinion. Would you be concerned if a LH agent happened upon knocking on your client's door one day? Nah. If you put someone in a good product for a good price and built a relationship/confidence than the thought of anyone coming after shouldn't worry you. Lead or no lead.

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Newby, You are forgetting the big thing about the leads the agent purchases from the IMO companies.

It's important to note that the post is designed to recruit producers from the big IMOs. Not the most objective view.

 

[Newby]

It's important to note that the post is designed to recruit producers from the big IMOs. Not the most objective view.

It may be pointing out a flaw with some of the large IMOs (and maybe small ones too) business model but it's a true one that most agents don't think of until it happens to them.

----------

Newby, You are forgetting the big thing about the leads the agent purchases from the IMO companies.

The Agent does not OWN the lead. It is Leased for a period of 30-45 days exclusively for the agent to sell to. The IMO can do anything they want after that period with the lead.

They never SELL the lead, it is actually Leased by the Agent.

Another thing I have issues with is the whole FE lead system is broken and you are seeing the desperation with the YOU KNOW WHO IMO's with all the poor quality.

FE Leads are so saturated to the same market and demographic that only experienced agents are successful in converting them to sales, the new agent is a pawn and not capable of selling to the traditional FE Leads. Especially the E64 lead that is being used often. The agent needs to know how to sell and pivot in a household and new agent barely remembers the product let alone have a sales background with skill enough to handle a prospect that thinks he/she is getting something for Free.

I don't know. I, like you, have always sold the middle class FE prospects and screened out the lower income ones. But the generic leads and selling to the low income people is still the most successful way to go for the newer agents.

With very little training many can have success.

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

It may be pointing out a flaw with some of the large IMOs (and maybe small ones too) business model but it's a true one that most agents don't think of until it happens to them.

Don't disagree, but please be transparent - your goal may be to point out a flaw, but you are doing it to attract producers.

 

[benefits365]

Don't disagree, but please be transparent - your goal may be to point out a flaw, but you are doing it to attract producers.

I didn't read that at all.
And newby supplies a ton of great feedback. Unless I've overlooked a lot of past transgressions on newbys part, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

And newby supplies a ton of great feedback. Unless I've overlooked a lot of past transgressions on newbys part, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Don't disagree that he's provided helpful info, but it should be seen through the lens of someone using the board for marketing purposes. That's the price of using the board to recruit. Not always objective.