Getting a MOO Contract Without Amerilife

[Josh]

Josh I will take your point about an uplines protecting thier interest but here is where they need to deal with the carrier, in your post our unethical agent has a debit balance with let's say abc Ins company with you as thier upline that you released and are now on the hook (along with the agent by the way) and you think they are writing business with ABC with thier new upline? Do you really think any carrier will pay me commissions one 1 agent number while I have a debit balance on an old agent number with them?

Ignoring the fact that things like that can actually happen, here is another way that situation works:

Agent is contracted through an upline with RNA, Assurity, and Forestors.

Agent is in good standing with and wants to get a release on RNA, but has a negative balance with Assurity because the one case with them didn't stick. Upline now has leverage, specifically that if they want a release on the other carriers, they'll have to make good on all of them. An agent should never make an upline do that, but sometimes they have to. Let's also not ignore that sometimes it's the difference between folks paying rent or paying back the upline, so what do you think they're going to do? Sometimes good people are just in a bad situation so they end up doing things they otherwise wouldn't.

Again, if someone is just looking for an as-earned contract with an upline and doesn't want any type of support or any type of leads and wants to have a release whenever they want then that's a different situation than the folks that want their upline to do their job for them (can't be bothered to read the underwriting guides, can't bother to call the carrier themselves to check on the status of a case, etc), but that's not always the case.

I like this forum, I really do, but the tone folks have on here about what a relationship with an upline should be is something that encourages agents being left to their own devices because they want "top contracts", so they don't get a good upline that's going to give them support. They might get told where to go for leads, but generally these "top contracts" with a guaranteed upfront release aren't from folks that are going to be spending a great deal of time hand holding which is what a lot of new agents need.

 

[Norwayguy]

Ok I see your point about the leverage. I will grant it being a valid point. I am not anti upline but because of the way things are in this world I don't put all my eggs in 1 basket if I decide to try a new upline I always start with giving them only 1 contract that I can live without and expect them to earn the rest, but reality is most uplines do nothing once your signature is on the dotted line of the contract.

Now that's not a major problem for me as I do read the underwriting guides and I will call the carrier direct because a lot of the time my "upline" really doesn't k.now the answer to a question if I have one.

 

[Josh]

It's nice when we can agree

 

[Norwayguy]

It's nice when we can agree

Not to start another arguement...But when you first came on the forum under your old name....Didn't you post that agents where overpaid on MA sales?

Thats like chum in the water

 

[Josh]

Not to start another arguement...But when you first came on the forum under your old name....Didn't you post that agents where overpaid on MA sales?

Thats like chum in the water

I'm positive you're leaving out a great deal of context, but at $1k/couple I'm positive I said something to that effect.

 

[Norwayguy]

I'm positive you're leaving out a great deal of context, but at $1k/couple I'm positive I said something to that effect.

First screw the idea of couple...Each sale of an MA product must follow the same rules. Second the carriers thought it was an appropriate amount of compensation on a fee for service model as they paid way less then a comparable commission on the dollars they recieved from the client and CMS.

So last week when I met with a client for 2 hours and left with an application that once issued will create $14K in commissions thats too much to pay an agent for 1 client and commissions should represent a fair amount based on your standards?

 

[jdeasy]

I'm positive you're leaving out a great deal of context, but at $1k/couple I'm positive I said something to that effect.

He is not leaving out much context. You and I had many arguments about your assertion that agents were paid too much for MA plans. I said then and i will say now that was just baloney!!

Yeah, if the only work the agent did was the hour or two to sign up a couple make $800 to $1000 then he was overpaid but you know full well that the meeting with the people and geting the applications done is a tiny part of the job.

It was ridiculous to even make such an assertion then and it is now.

 

[Josh]

First screw the idea of couple...Each sale of an MA product must follow the same rules. Second the carriers thought it was an appropriate amount of compensation on a fee for service model as they paid way less then a comparable commission on the dollars they recieved from the client and CMS.

So last week when I met with a client for 2 hours and left with an application that once issued will create $14K in commissions thats too much to pay an agent for 1 client and commissions should represent a fair amount based on your standards?

Again, I think you're leaving out a great deal of context and if you'd like to find the thread I'm sure that would shed some light on it, but it wasn't just the dollar amount of the commission and you're absolutely taking it out of context.
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He is not leaving out much context.

Surely you can point to the thread where the discussion was then.

Yeah, if the only work the agent did was the hour or two to sign up a couple make $800 to $1000 then he was overpaid but you know full well that the meeting with the people and geting the applications done is a tiny part of the job.

Having been a carrier rep for four years I'm keenly aware of the fact that it's more than the hour or two of work, especially with MIPPA (which was a horrible piece of legislation).

If either of you want to point to the actual discussion then I'll happily respond to this, but we're taking one comment I made years ago and ignoring the rest of the framing.

 

[Rearden]

You get what you negotiate.

The problem I see is IMOs married to your lead production -- IE, if I take contracts through you, the IMO, in exchange for lessened commission and a consistent lead flow -- I think it's reasonable to expect/negotiate contract-withdrawal under terms where the IMO does not live up to its services.

That keeps everyone honest -- if you do a good job as an agent or IMO, you will keep the business.

But obviously this is stuff that newbies don't know ahead of time (like myself) and typically gloss over.

 

[jdeasy]

Again, I think you're leaving out a great deal of context and if you'd like to find the thread I'm sure that would shed some light on it, but it wasn't just the dollar amount of the commission and you're absolutely taking it out of context.
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Surely you can point to the thread where the discussion was then.



Having been a carrier rep for four years I'm keenly aware of the fact that it's more than the hour or two of work, especially with MIPPA (which was a horrible piece of legislation).

If either of you want to point to the actual discussion then I'll happily respond to this, but we're taking one comment I made years ago and ignoring the rest of the framing.

No. I don't have it saved nor do I wish to bother digging through the archives to find them. It was pre MIPPA because I stopped MA plans after MIPPA. The 2008 AEP was my last. I haven't sold an MA plan since Feb. 2009.

Plus, you and I get along now so I don't want to take the scabs off the old wounds.