Lead Connections Fixed Cost Leads

[Josh]

Is he buying from a different vendor that gives "credits" instead of unlimited monthly like yours ?

Exactly.

With yours a person could get 200,000 records a month and for less couldn't they ?

With mine you're going to find the data is a touch less accurate, but the price is drastically different. With mine folks can download as many records a month as they'd like in groups of 10,000. So they could do that every two minutes if they wanted. Some of my clients will download 100k records a day.

I just don't understand the difference between the 2 systems.

It's price, quality, and filters. LRG data has a few more filters, is slightly more accurate, and significantly more expensive, even when it's basically being given away. With ListShack.com | Unlimited Sales Leads, the data is still pretty good, has less filters (but still all the ones most folks use), and is absolutely at the bottom of the pricing chart. It also let's you have the flexibility to try out different areas. Let's say you have a telemarketer calling through XYZ city and after a day you realize they all have retiree benefits and you're trying to sell Medicare. With ListShack.com you could literally just login, download another list, and switch to another city whenever you want without having to wait for anyone to get back to you and without having to pay anything extra.

The list business is literally a multi-billion dollar industry and just like insurance there is no one company or product that can meet everyone's needs. With ListShack I've decided to bet heavily on folks wanting a lot of good data at great prices vs great data at a good price.

 

[CALTCAgent]

Some of my clients will download 100k records a day.

Are they people doing telemarketing mainly or call centers ?

Seems like that would be where they would be most valuable, when you have to change gears or are not sure where you should call ?

I guess I could run counts on your site ?

Do you think they would work well for DM ?

Not a medicare guy, but these companies always tell me for example all the "turning 65" are being mailed to. I could bring my own list or my own mailing in that case. Not sure your data is "accurate enough" for something like that ?

It's price, quality, and filters. LRG data has a few more filters, is slightly more accurate, and significantly more expensive, even when it's basically being given away.

What filters do they have that you don't ?

Any estimate on the difference in quality ?

What is the price difference ?

 

[Josh]

Are they people doing telemarketing mainly or call centers ?

It's a mix.

Seems like that would be where they would be most valuable, when you have to change gears or are not sure where you should call ?

In a way it really doesn't matter what situation you're in. The quality difference is probably within a few percent. On the site I understate it at 85%, it's closer 90%+ vs the 95%+ with LRG. That means that out of 20 calls you'll get 2 disconnects instead of 1. Again, we're dealing in averages. In some areas it's like 50%, but then we go to LRG data and they're only a 47% disconnect or something dumb like that. It is a database of over 200 million records aggregated from hundreds of sources so it's a mixed bag, but overall if you have a problem with one source, you'll have it with the other.

I guess I could run counts on your site ?

With ListShack.com it would only be if you signed up. You can email/pm me if you want a link to the LRG system. They have it psuedo white labelled so it's not supposed to be promoted publicly like on the forum here, but anyone can access it.

Do you think they would work well for DM ?

I have at least three print shops using ListShack.com | Unlimited Sales Leads. None of them have yelled at me yet so I assume no news is good news. That's really where running NCOA comes into play. If you run NCOA on the data (which a print shop should be doing anyway) then the difference in quality should be even more negligible.

Not a medicare guy, but these companies always tell me for example all the "turning 65" are being mailed to. I could bring my own list or my own mailing in that case. Not sure your data is "accurate enough" for something like that ?

The T65 market is getting beat up the 8 ways of Sunday. I have folks doing well mailing to them and folks doing well calling, but it's a lot more of a grind than the older crowd. As much as my competitors may want to disparage the quality of the data, the reality is that the phone numbers are the trickiest part, everything else is fairly stagnant. Run the NCOA to get the moves and you're golden. I've been selling lists for years, but launching ListShack was a real eye opener for me in a way because I didn't realize just how accessible some of this data was. When I started looking at bulk sources and they sent me over the headers they completely lined up with the LRG data I had been getting. Again, they do some tweaks to it, but all the raw source data is identical between LRG and ListShack.com.

What filters do they have that you don't ?

Here's what I have with ListShack:
For consumers you can search by age, income, homeowner status, property value, marital status, gender, and DNC status. For both you can pick the area by state, county, zip code, or area codes.

Through LRG you can also get age of a home, credit scores, and a few others. Basically they take the full data set which is around 350 data points (many of which are repetitive), on the other hand I narrow it down to just the most common which are listed above.

Any estimate on the difference in quality ?

Just adding to the above, it's really probably only ever going to be 5% off of each other, usually less. The major updates come out quarterly and on top of that folks can do some things to clean up/enhance their own files and LRG does a good job of that, but for the money, most folks don't get much extra value.

What is the price difference ?

Market value on LRG data is around $100 for 1,000 records and in volume the per record price goes down. I've been retailing that at $69/1,000 for years. Rick decided to basically give it away at $20/1,000. That is really absurdly low. By contrast, ListShack.com | Unlimited Sales Leads is only $50/month. No contracts, no fees, and it's basically unrestricted. If you wanted to download the entire 200 million consumers and over 14 million businesses it would be cumbersome, but I routinely have folks download 100,000 a day without any issues. So retail vs just about any other vendor you can get unlimited access for less than the cost of 1,000. It's also fully automated so you can login 24X7 and get instant access.

I'm obviously biased, but I put together ListShack as a product to help little marketers and they're getting a lot of value out of it.

 

[GreenSky]

I've been retailing that at $69/1,000 for years. Rick decided to basically give it away at $20/1,000. That is really absurdly low.

It's a 100% markup since I paid $10/1,000. Maybe $69/1,000 was really absurdly high for the same data.

Rick

 

[Josh]

It's a 100% markup since I paid $10/1,000. Maybe $69/1,000 was really absurdly high for the same data.

Rick

That's a pretty good markup except it's not viable. Sure you can make a few bucks on the side with it, but that's all it will ever be. How many do you have to sell before you can afford a website? How can you pay for marketing? As soon as someone uses more than 2,500 records ListShack.com | Unlimited Sales Leads will give them UNLIMITED for the same price you're charging. Hell, if someone uses discount code "rick" it goes down to $40 for the first month, so if they're using more than 2k records it's less expensive.

What you have yet to admit publicly is that this is just a petty attempt to hurt my business because you don't like me personally. Years ago I offered you and Nick the option to do exactly what you're doing now and you declined. I could have matched the offer you got on this data, but you didn't want to do business with me, you wanted to take business away from me. Like I've said before though, welcome to the list business. It's a multi-billion dollar industry with plenty of room for you in it. My business is thriving and I'm sure you could turn this into a reliable income stream for you if you'd like to.

 

[GreenSky]

What Josh forgets is unlike him I am a successful insurance agent. I didn't like seeing agents get ripped off by paying $69 when they could pay a lot less.

I have a telemarketer and glad to pay $10/1,000.

If I was in the business of selling lists and wanted to make a profit, I might consider being a greedy vendor. In my case, I'm just trying to recoup some of the $2,000 I laid out.

Why would anyone need unlimited 85% accurate lists when for $20,1,000 they can get (I think this is what Josh used to say), 98% accurate?

I don't need to have a bullsh*t welcome to the list business. I'm an insurance agent willing to help other agents get lists for cheap.

Rick

 

[Josh]

What Josh forgets is unlike him I am a successful insurance agent. I didn't like seeing agents get ripped off by paying $69 when they could pay a lot less.

You're feigned indignation is an attempt to ignore the real reason you're selling data which has absolutely nothing to do with what I've been charging for years. I offered you and Nick the ability to give agents that were members of your association reduced costs on lists but you didn't want to do it. Only after you wake up one morning with a wild hair and decided that you didn't like me did any of this come up.

The fact of the matter is industry average for 1,000 records is over $100, I had been charging $69. That you're willing to sell lists at almost no margin is all well and good, but it's not viable. You're an insurance agent that basically runs a charity selling lists at just above cost. You're not willing to sell health insurance at absurdly low commissions, but you'll sell someone 1,000 records to make less than $10. There is an obvious disconnect there.

What's the markup on your website? Surely your website hosting company isn't charging you $20/month/member for it.

As I've said before, you can probably make a few bucks off this, but you're hardly a force in the market.

Again, because apparently you want to claim to be some white knight here, years ago I offered to sell you a pile of data at a reduced rate so you could offer a discount to your agents, but you and Nick decided you didn't want to do it.

Shall we continue the discussion?

 

[GreenSky]

Again, because apparently you want to claim to be some white knight here, years ago I offered to sell you a pile of data at a reduced rate so you could offer a discount to your agents, but you and Nick decided you didn't want to do it.

Shall we continue the discussion?

If you will allow me the last word, the biggest reason we didn't want to work with you is neither of us like or trust you.

I you want to continue this, go ahead. But you're not making yourself look any better. But keep up the crap.

Rick

 

[Josh]

If you will allow me the last word, the biggest reason we didn't want to work with you is neither of us like or trust you.

I you want to continue this, go ahead. But you're not making yourself look any better. But keep up the crap.

Rick

I've given you the last word before, then you don't leave things alone. You're also completely making things up. During that exact time you had no problem giving agents a discount on the lists I sold and referring them to me. Spin it all you want, but it was never about the margins and you never really cared what people were paying for lists.

You have a long and reputation for being exactly the type of person you are. Just look at your avatar and your post history. You mock and ridicule agents for posting questions on here you think are stupid. Right off the bat, your avatar says "YOU ARE A COMPLETE ****NG MORON!"

 

[CALTCAgent]

Why would anyone need unlimited 85% accurate lists when for $20,1,000 they can get (I think this is what Josh used to say), 98% accurate?

I'd prefer the more accurate if there is this big of a difference. Why is one more accurate than the other ?