Downlines

[Prtzl]

Obviously he hasn't recruited you, you are all talk no action is anyone trying to recruit you?

A.T.N.A ~ That's a term saved for those who are bloviating about personal accomplishments; production/sales - when in fact, it's just that - all talk no action. I'v never said I'd be a world class FE Agent, " if only"...

Disecting me does nothing - you're just blathering --

Yes, I'v been contacted on herr a couple of times.. but jd or Fex has never tried to recruit me..

 

[Newby]

I guess I'm HR, so Ill respond.

I dont disagree that most agents contract with IMOs and DONT see a commission grid. That is not what we are debating here.

That's what you have been trying to change the debate to. You've posted two or three times that ALL agents see their commissions in their contracting packet prior to signing up. I've called BS on that. We all know they don't. You are just now for the first time admitting to that fact.

You are puffing up FEX based on a false premise, and you are taking it way too personally when challenged on certain talking points. Im not attacking you, Im simply challenging the notion that agents are getting screwed daily because IMO's arent publically posting their commissions.

I'm not puffing up anything. I state the facts. No agent should accept being yanked around on commissions. Not a bit. How could it be "puffing up" if you are saying it's not even important to do that. Must just be a big waste of time that means nothing to agents. Why would they want to know their commission levels?

So you are "challenging" that agents do NOT get ripped off by agencies not disclosing the commission levels up front and make it easy to compare? I find that hard to believe. I think agents prefer it. And I can tell you my phone has been ringing off the hook this week from this discussion. Agents seem to LIKE having easy access to commission levels.

I have personally found that MOST of the IMO's that post commissions are the ones known for screwing agents.
I definitely call BS on that one. That doesn't even make sense how that would happen. Is this how it play out? "Here's our commission levels. Go compare them around and come back and contract with us once you see we aren't treating you fairly." Yes, that makes a lot of sense Ramez. As much sense as most of your argrument.

Think about it. Primerica, Equias, Family First, Symetry, NAA, SL, TAG, YIG, LH, Kingdom Group. THEY ALL POST THEIR COMMISSIONS PUBLICLY, AND THEY POST HOW TO GET HIGHER COMMISSIONS BY RECRUITING AND PRODUCING.

I doubt ANY of those agencies publically post commission levels. Do you have links? Are you saying that EVERY agent at LH starts at the same level? NAA too? Hmmmmm? I think Ramez is getting his facts all mixed up again. Agencies that do the pyramid recruiting don't have everyone on the same levels. How could they do that Ramez? Embellish on this crazy idea please. Give us some links.

That does NOT make them a better choice then anyone else. These are not organizations that I would recommend, nor is it an organization that I believe you would recommend.

Nope there are some bad ones on your list in my opinion. And part of the reason they get away with it is because they play the Easter Egg hunt game on commissions. They don't post the bottom starting levels on their website. I guess if you can post the links and I see it with my own eyes I'll have to think Heck just froze over. Until then I call BS on your whole argrument.

My point: the premise that alot of IMOs are dishonest because FEX is transparent about commissions is a LIE. There are many dishonest organizations that are open about commissions.

The act of hiding commissions and talking to agents about contracting with you without giving them clear commission grids in print ESPECIALLY after an agent asks for them is dishonest. I don't have any list of who makes it easy to see commissions and who makes it difficult. I'm sure somewhere there is an agency that is fine on getting commissions into agents hands but is bad at something else. Who knows. But it's definitely a huge red flag to any prospective agent with any brains at all that if they are hiding it, they either ain't proud of it or they are going to slip something to you. I have no idea how you can make an argrument any other way other than what Todd said earlier.

And with all due respect, I know you've never liked me, its cool, but its because Ive always called you out on your BS. Its nothing personal. I think youre a great guy, I think your honest, but you FEX boys dont like to be challenged and take it personal. I got nothing against you, but I'd lump you in the "FOS Marketer" category with this transparent about commissions talk.

Ramez I don't dislike you. I don't even know you. I pretty much get along with everyone. Your crazy post wars on here through the years have been better than any advertising we could ever do. You were pitching your funeral trust scheme and you didn't know beans about it. You've bounced from so many things to your next plan no one can keep up. Why do you keep changing names? I've never said a peep to you but you drag me into your school girl jealousy of JD. Leave me out of your little squabbles and I won't yank your chain at all.

----------

What is the need for a IMP to be under an IMO? I assume the big player carriers will only work with particular people?

Yes. With a several of the companies there are only a few distribution points. Everyone is under someone with them IF you have a big contract.

All agencies that sell many companies like we do have their smaller companies direct and some of the largest ones through other up lines. That way you have more commission to work with on those companies as well as your main ones.

Most agencies do not disclose who their up lines are. It's a closely guarded secret. Just another form of transparency or not. I understand why they do that. They don't want you to identify the up line agency with their own.

Agents are on this forum frequently bashing agencies that they don't even know they are contracted under. It's comical when you know the players.

 

[Baseball7]

When you get statements/emails from carriers for example doesn't that show who your under? A la carriers with long apps and no POS call.

 

[NSRH]

When you get statements/emails from carriers for example doesn't that show who your under? A la carriers with long apps and no POS call.

I cant speak for all carriers, but some carriers will CC all correspondences to the upline. So the agent knows exactly who is in their hierarchy. You can also call and ask, most carriers will tell you.

Wit American Amicable, for example, it's impossible to not know your entire upline since on every PDF you can print (commissions, placement report, etc) there is your uplines information all the way to the carrier on the bottom of the page.

 

[Willie B]

Ramez I don't dislike you. I don't even know you. I pretty much get along with everyone. Your crazy post wars on here through the years have been better than any advertising we could ever do. You were pitching your funeral trust scheme and you didn't know beans about it. You've bounced from so many things to your next plan no one can keep up. Why do you keep changing names? I've never said a peep to you but you drag me into your school girl jealousy of JD. Leave me out of your little squabbles and I won't yank your chain at all.

----------



Yes. With a several of the companies there are only a few distribution points. Everyone is under someone with them IF you have a big contract.

All agencies that sell many companies like we do have their smaller companies direct and some of the largest ones through other up lines. That way you have more commission to work with on those companies as well as your main ones.

Most agencies do not disclose who their up lines are. It's a closely guarded secret. Just another form of transparency or not. I understand why they do that. They don't want you to identify the up line agency with their own.

Agents are on this forum frequently bashing agencies that they don't even know they are contracted under. It's comical when you know the players.

You took a page right our of your recruiter JD's playbook, you're two peas in a pod.

 

[Newby]

You took a page right our of your recruiter JD's playbook, you're two peas in a pod.

What was that? It went over my head.

----------

When you get statements/emails from carriers for example doesn't that show who your under? A la carriers with long apps and no POS call.

Most do not. It's a very closely guarded secret.

 

[NSRH]

Ramez I don't dislike you. I don't even know you. I pretty much get along with everyone. Your crazy post wars on here through the years have been better than any advertising we could ever do. You were pitching your funeral trust scheme and you didn't know beans about it. You've bounced from so many things to your next plan no one can keep up. Why do you keep changing names? I've never said a peep to you but you drag me into your school girl jealousy of JD. Leave me out of your little squabbles and I won't yank your chain at all.

----------



Yes. With a several of the companies there are only a few distribution points. Everyone is under someone with them IF you have a big contract.

All agencies that sell many companies like we do have their smaller companies direct and some of the largest ones through other up lines. That way you have more commission to work with on those companies as well as your main ones.

Most agencies do not disclose who their up lines are. It's a closely guarded secret. Just another form of transparency or not. I understand why they do that. They don't want you to identify the up line agency with their own.

Agents are on this forum frequently bashing agencies that they don't even know they are contracted under. It's comical when you know the players.

I wont argue with you point by point, but Ill sum it up nicely for you:

Your agents represent you. I know you disagree, but I didnt bring up any of your agents, you did, and however they act represents your company. Thats rule number one for building a large enterprise. Having the right people around. Id recommend reading "Good to Great" by Jim Collins.

My last post from my other username was almost seven years ago. I havent posted since then. I dont even know what email I used to sign up for that. "Keep changing usernames?" <- Thats drivel

Scott, when it comes to debating, you should stick to the facts you know, once you begin personal attacks it shows that your facts dont back you up. Come on man. Funeral trust scheme? It was underwritten by a major insurance company, how is that a scheme?

Moreover, you have very narrow experience when it comes to the funeral industry, although alot of years in it. As you know funeral regulations are governed by states. So your experience in IN, does not necessarily hold true for California or Ohio. If you understood that, you'd know Funeral Trusts arent scams. But we'll discuss that another day.

I wish you much success, but if youre going to recruit publicly, and profit off this forum, you better start expecting to be challenged. Its not a negative thing, but others are allowed to respectfully disagree. You've done a great job allowing your agents to do your dirty work and scare away competition, but I dont need this forum to build my business and my signature is not an advertisement, so Ill stick around for a while this time.

 

[Baseball7]

Fair to say then the carrier I'm referring to shows me exactly who is above me, and its exactly as advertised no secert middle man IMO or "agency".

 

[NSRH]

Fair to say then the carrier I'm referring to shows me exactly who is above me, and its exactly as advertised no secert middle man IMO or "agency".

Alot of reputable IMO's work this way.

"FOS Marketers" will tell you otherwise.

 

[Newby]

I wont argue with you point by point, but Ill sum it up nicely for you:

Your agents represent you. I know you disagree, but I didnt bring up any of your agents, you did, and however they act represents your company. Thats rule number one for building a large enterprise. Having the right people around. Id recommend reading "Good to Great" by Jim Collins.

My last post from my other username was almost seven years ago. I havent posted since then. I dont even know what email I used to sign up for that. "Keep changing usernames?" <- Thats drivel

Scott, when it comes to debating, you should stick to the facts you know, once you begin personal attacks it shows that your facts dont back you up. Come on man. Funeral trust scheme? It was underwritten by a major insurance company, how is that a scheme?

Moreover, you have very narrow experience when it comes to the funeral industry, although alot of years in it. As you know funeral regulations are governed by states. So your experience in IN, does not necessarily hold true for California or Ohio. If you understood that, you'd know Funeral Trusts arent scams. But we'll discuss that another day.

I wish you much success, but if youre going to recruit publicly, and profit off this forum, you better start expecting to be challenged. Its not a negative thing, but others are allowed to respectfully disagree. You've done a great job allowing your agents to do your dirty work and scare away competition, but I dont need this forum to build my business and my signature is not an advertisement, so Ill stick around for a while this time.

Ramez the scheme(edited: it wasn't a scam. It was just marketer BS) was that you were pitching for agents to make all this money selling something that you had never sold a single one or understood the basics of. That is the definition of FOS marketer. THEY can do great at it. But YOU aren't going to do it. That was the (marketer BS). And that's why you have a grudge to this day.