Final Expense Lead Source and Companies

New agents - beware of the sharks! I have read and reread all of the "advice" offered on this forum and especially this thread. There are two types of folks on here - recruiters and new agents that are trying to figure out which way to go. Unfortunately, there are too many recruiters on here trying to sway agents that they are the "experts" in final expense. The only training that is offered through anybody is online audio or video and conference calls. Back in the day(1990) for me - someone rode in the car with me and showed me the ropes...for that I am still thankful to this day for the training. The one thing that they did not have to teach me was how to WORK...I all ready had work ethic and with a little training, I was off and running. If you do not have a good work ethic, then take a look in the mirror and realize it - then do yourself a favor and seek another profession, because this(fe)will never work for you.

If anyone tries to recruit you - ask them how much overwrite they will be getting on your contract...then ask yourself if this recruiter is going to EARN that 25 - 50 percent overwrite. For that price they better be willing to get on a plane if necessary, go to where you are and get in the car with you. If they will do that - then great - they probably will be able to earn that overwrite. If not, then don't sign a contract would be my advice. These recruiters are building their sales volume and padding their pockets. If they will not give you a straight answer, then your gut should lead you from there.

How about we that have some experience, try to simply offer some sound advice to new agents...help someone get into this business and better the lives of others. I can tell you this, as a college graduate there are a lot of things I could do other than this - but nothing I know of other than being a surgeon that will generate the same income as working in insurance and specifically fe.

I suppose I will come under verbal attack from the guru recruiters that bash each other back and forth on here - but I for one am tired of the sharks that are taking advantage of new agents and earning ridiculous overwrite commissions for doing nothing.

For new agents, choose your path - trust who you are dealing with and then go to work with everything that you've got.

Now this is exactly what I'm talking about right here! And as Emptyeternity said, "for what? A weeks worth of training?" It is no secret on here that I do offer contracts to agents. I also happily disclose what I am making on them, and trust me, it ain't that much!
I make no where near 25-50% on an agent. As a matter of fact, there are many on this very forum that can attest to what I give and what I do for them and all for 5-10%! Most of the time it's only the lower of the two. I have no problem in disclosing what I make, but that's just me. I'm not saying that everyone should do this and I know a lot wouldn't because if the agent knew, the recruiter wouldn't be able to justify it and they would just lose a potential agent.
Now if anybody wants to refer to me as a 'shark', then let them. I don't do the shark thing very well as I've been screwed by all the sharks too, I too am tired of it and I help every agent I can to learn what's really going on in the business so that they don't get bitten.
As a matter of fact, there are some sharks right here on this forum that have a real problem with the contracts I offer. Well, get over it!
If there is a green agent, I have no problem in letting them know...no, I don't offer leads, but I'll tell you where you can get them at a good price....no, I don't offer training but I'll tell you all I can. If someone needs training because they are new, then I'm probably not the guy to see. If you just need a little help in understanding how to talk on the phone, get appointments or even sell on the phone, I'll help you. I won't do it forever, therefore, I won't take that big chunk of commissions forever. I try to let you be independent and let you decide whether or not you want to take advantage of the higher contracts. I don't sit back while you're on an 80% contract and try to convince you that I've done good by you. Not my style!
 
TRAINING is the variable that is missing in everyone’s formulas for success.

Dr. Kuhn123, when you came into the business you did not just call up Main Street Power mailers and begin ordering yourself 2,000 mailers weekly. Correct me if I am wrong but you came in under an IMO that taught you the A’s and B’s of selling Final Expense. And you learned from some very good FE guys. As did Stratos and I. That was your building blocks that allowed you to evolve into the Independent “Big Shooter” you are today.

Hosier Daddy......Dr. Kuhn???? What gives???? I try to claim Dr. of Love, but my wife heartily disagrees! (same thing with "Big Shooter", she's just not buying it.)

You are right that I did train with some stellar agents back when I started.....about 8 hours with the first agent on day 1, and then about another 7 hours with the other on day 2.....Most of the successful FE agents that I know have had very little training, usually two days, and then either they can do it, or they can't. the sales aspect of it just isn't difficult. Either it clicks for an agent and he can go out and start making things work... or not. I have one guy that has came out to ride with me 6 or 7 times in the last 4 years, and he still isn't getting it done. Now, either I am an extremely poor teacher, or he just doesn't have it. (and, to answer Straightshooter's impending question; NO I do not have an override on him, I am just willing to help a guy whenever he needs it).

To answer straightshooters concern about "giving up" your commission to get trained.........
I have people out to ride with me on most weeks, some I have recruited and they are part of my heierarchy, but most of them are not. It does not affect their commision level either way.

Example: I take a guy out that is just starting, he is going to be on a 115pt contract; does not matter if I recruited him to Pacesetter Advantage, or if he came on his own, he will still start on a 115pt contract until the IMO feels his production warrants an increase.

Training is important, I agree with you on that Travis. An agent should be able get all of the training that he feels he needs, some guys do need more that others, but most of the guys that I know that are writing 200k plus in FE, had very little training, but they obviously had the correct training.
 
straightshooter:

Keep up your faith you will succeed.
We have all been in your shoes.

Working with a senior agent can help you sharpen your skills.

It takes time.

My motto is "half of something is better then nothing!"

Keep it up!
 
Hosier Daddy......Dr. Kuhn???? What gives???? I try to claim Dr. of Love, but my wife heartily disagrees! (same thing with "Big Shooter", she's just not buying it.)

You are right that I did train with some stellar agents back when I started.....about 8 hours with the first agent on day 1, and then about another 7 hours with the other on day 2.....Most of the successful FE agents that I know have had very little training, usually two days, and then either they can do it, or they can't. the sales aspect of it just isn't difficult. Either it clicks for an agent and he can go out and start making things work... or not. I have one guy that has came out to ride with me 6 or 7 times in the last 4 years, and he still isn't getting it done. Now, either I am an extremely poor teacher, or he just doesn't have it. (and, to answer Straightshooter's impending question; NO I do not have an override on him, I am just willing to help a guy whenever he needs it).

To answer straightshooters concern about "giving up" your commission to get trained.........
I have people out to ride with me on most weeks, some I have recruited and they are part of my heierarchy, but most of them are not. It does not affect their commision level either way.

Example: I take a guy out that is just starting, he is going to be on a 115pt contract; does not matter if I recruited him to Pacesetter Advantage, or if he came on his own, he will still start on a 115pt contract until the IMO feels his production warrants an increase.

Training is important, I agree with you on that Travis. An agent should be able get all of the training that he feels he needs, some guys do need more that others, but most of the guys that I know that are writing 200k plus in FE, had very little training, but they obviously had the correct training.

Somebody from Kansas told me you had or was working on your Doctrine degree... Just a little teasing Doc? Good for you!!!
;)

As far as these hang up's with overrides. One thing you guys are not figuring is the cost to generate the leads. Certainly you can't argue that selling a $15 lead is profitable? If that was the case there would be more IMO's and Mail Shops selling actual leads and not mail.

Our program is not for the "Michael Jordans" of Final Expense. It is more geared toward the masses. The role players. Guys like you mentioned above that have been hanging around for 4 years and not getting it done, guys that need a little more love and support then one day.

The other thing that is mildly deceptive is guys giving out 115% Americo contracts and acting as if they are really giving the agent the farm...

115% contract with Americo gives the IMO the same spread and makes them the same override as if you had the following commissions from the following companies.

105% with Royal Neighbors
105% with Monumental
100% with Colombian
100% with Loyal American
95% with Oxford
95% with UTA

This will give you guys a point of reference. Americo has more commission built into the product that is why there premium is higher then the rest of the companies.

I don't understand all of the hating, of the lead program. If a guy comes on the lead program with me, and if he does what I tell him to do I will show him how for $300 he can get 25-30 leads a week and write between $3,000-$7,000 in Annual Premium working a 4 day work week. And after they have done that for a couple years I will show them how to do that production in two days. If an agent wants to go out on his own he will always have that ability.

I am providing "swimming lessons" unlike others who just throw you in the deep end and a couple swim, but most drowned.

Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses Yearning to Sell Final Expense!!!

Thanks for the replies, I do enjoy the discussion, and everyone's point of views. At the end of the day, I think we can all agree that selling insurance as ruined us for all other real work.
:yes:
 
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Somebody from Kansas told me you had or was working on your Doctrine degree... Just a little teasing Doc? Good for you!!!
;)

As far as these hang up's with overrides. One thing you guys are not figuring is the cost to generate the leads. Certainly you can't argue that selling a $15 lead is profitable? If that was the case there would be more IMO's and Mail Shops selling actual leads and not mail.

Our program is not for the "Michael Jordans" of Final Expense. It is more geared toward the masses. The role players. Guys like you mentioned above that have been hanging around for 4 years and not getting it done, guys that need a little more love and support then one day.

The other thing that is mildly deceptive is guys giving out 115% Americo contracts and acting as if they are really giving the agent the farm...

115% contract with Americo gives the IMO the same spread and makes them the same override as if you had the following commissions from the following companies.

105% with Royal Neighbors
105% with Monumental
100% with Colombian
100% with Loyal American
95% with Oxford
95% with UTA

This will give you guys a point of reference. Americo has more commission built into the product that is why there premium is higher then the rest of the companies.

I don't understand all of the hating, of the lead program. If a guy comes on the lead program with me, and if he does what I tell him to do I will show him how for $300 he can get 25-30 leads a week and write between $3,000-$7,000 in Annual Premium working a 4 day work week. And after they have done that for a couple years I will show them how to do that production in two days. If an agent wants to go out on his own he will always have that ability.

I am providing "swimming lessons" unlike others who just throw you in the deep end and a couple swim, but most drowned.

Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses Yearning to Sell Final Expense!!!

Thanks for the replies, I do enjoy the discussion, and everyone's point of views. At the end of the day, I think we can all agree that selling insurance as ruined us for all other real work.
:yes:
This is the opposite of the point that I was trying to make as far as overrides go. I could care less what override an IMO has over me. If he has 200 pts over me, great for him. As long as I am getting the best contract that I can expect from each carrier based on my production, then I'm fine with it.

I've never HATED your lead program; different strokes for different folks. I'm good with it, I'm sure that it is of benefit to some, and have always wished you success with it.

I am not a Dr. I was working on my Ph.D. and teaching classes at The University of Kansas............that is before I found the insurance business almost seven years ago. I have all of my course work finished, just lack a doctoral dissertation. We are getting ready to move back to Kansas City in the next couple months, so who knows, maybe I'll get it done then. But, like you mentioned before, I can't imagine ever having a REAL job again in my life.
 
I am not a Dr. I was working on my Ph.D. and teaching classes at The University of Kansas............that is before I found the insurance business almost seven years ago. I have all of my course work finished, just lack a doctoral dissertation. We are getting ready to move back to Kansas City in the next couple months, so who knows, maybe I'll get it done then.

Impressive. What field is your PhD study in...? That would cool if you could go back and finish the dis... What kind of time requirement would that take after being away from it this long...?
Not ever having been a great student, I have always admired those that had the discipline and ability to excel in academics.
 
115% contract with Americo gives the IMO the same spread and makes them the same override as if you had the following commissions from the following companies.

105% with Royal Neighbors
105% with Monumental
100% with Colombian
100% with Loyal American
95% with Oxford
95% with UTA

This will give you guys a point of reference. Americo has more commission built into the product that is why there premium is higher then the rest of the companies.:yes:

If this was all I gave out I wouldn't have room to argue, but you are way below brother.
For the record, I don't hate your lead program. Some people need what you've got. My problem is the huge overwrites that you get for actually very little work. I'm not saying that in the beginning you don't have to work to teach someone. Sure, charge for your services, then let them go and give them a decent contract. By a decent contract, I mean 10-15% above what you stated above. After they are trained with your system, where's all the work? What are you doing to earn the big overwrites then? You're not.
 
Here's the deal. IMO, anyone that has "sales ability" can sell FE but selling FE requires that you have someone to sell TOO. If you are a good salesman and you want to start selling FE today you have to get leads. So you can call a mailing house and give them your money today and "bang zoom" three weeks later they start rolling in. Your in business right? Well, after you run those leads this week, you are out of business for another three weeks until the new leads roll in. Orrrr, you start out the "right way" and order 2k every week for the first three weeks and every week thereafter. So lets see, 2k is roughly $750/week so you are gonna be $2,250.00 in the hole when you get your first lead. After you've worked your first set of leads (let's hope we got a good return) for a week, you are now $3,000.00 in the hole. Okay week four is starting and you haven't gotten one thin dime in commission yet, but your smacking your hands together to get yourself psyched up to run your leads and your now $3,750.00 in the hole and your wife is wondering were your going all day and why the mortgage isn't paid. Week two of selling and your a good salesman so now you've got 7-10 apps written and waiting on commission from those and then you need to order more leads. $4500 in the hole and you get your first commission check. $660 instead of $540 because you were "smart" and got a 110% contract instead of 90%. The most I've been "in the hole" with Hoosierdaddy's group is $400. My second month was last Dec. and that was over $12,000.00AP. BTW the reason that I know the numbers on DIY is because that's what I did last fall. I am known in these here parts as a great salesman, but when you surround yourself with guys that are better than you, it pushes you to to more. The only production requirements I have are set by me. Nobody tells me what to do or when to do it. I'm just sayin.....................
 
Here's the deal. IMO, anyone that has "sales ability" can sell FE but selling FE requires that you have someone to sell TOO. If you are a good salesman and you want to start selling FE today you have to get leads. So you can call a mailing house and give them your money today and "bang zoom" three weeks later they start rolling in. Your in business right? Well, after you run those leads this week, you are out of business for another three weeks until the new leads roll in. Orrrr, you start out the "right way" and order 2k every week for the first three weeks and every week thereafter. So lets see, 2k is roughly $750/week so you are gonna be $2,250.00 in the hole when you get your first lead. After you've worked your first set of leads (let's hope we got a good return) for a week, you are now $3,000.00 in the hole. Okay week four is starting and you haven't gotten one thin dime in commission yet, but your smacking your hands together to get yourself psyched up to run your leads and your now $3,750.00 in the hole and your wife is wondering were your going all day and why the mortgage isn't paid. Week two of selling and your a good salesman so now you've got 7-10 apps written and waiting on commission from those and then you need to order more leads. $4500 in the hole and you get your first commission check. $660 instead of $540 because you were "smart" and got a 110% contract instead of 90%. The most I've been "in the hole" with Hoosierdaddy's group is $400. My second month was last Dec. and that was over $12,000.00AP. BTW the reason that I know the numbers on DIY is because that's what I did last fall. I am known in these here parts as a great salesman, but when you surround yourself with guys that are better than you, it pushes you to to more. The only production requirements I have are set by me. Nobody tells me what to do or when to do it. I'm just sayin.....................

Or, you might try ordering $6 dialer leads at 30 leads a week and come out a whole lot better. Most people starting out in Final Expense don't have that kind of money to throw around. Evidently you did, or maybe you didn't since your wife was wondering about the mortgage. You start small, don't try to eat the elephant all in one bite!
Besides that, you didn't bother to add up the "7" apps which would have by your calculations been $560 more on the 110% contract. Of course if you're a great salesperson (like you) that would be $800 more on the 10 apps. I'm just sayin.................;)
 
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